Adventures in Piezography

charjohncarter said:
Thanks Jeff, photography is one endless learning curve.
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You are absolutely right! But I do love what I am able (with my minimal skills) to produce using Jon Cone's Piezography inks in my Epson R2400. Rather than refilling cartridges I have a CIS system and just refill the bottles. Also recently had the printer professionally cleaned and I added the external waste ink bottle (again from inkjetmall.com) so I don't have to worry about that overflowing anymore! :rolleyes:

Also added your blog to my list of frequently visited sites, Jeff!
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the post. Last week I set up my 3880 with a MPS K-7 warm neutral/selenium and printed for the first time digitally. Like you I bought my Monochrom two years ago, but only had the funds for a 27 inch Eizo and all the paper and inks recently.

The wait was well worth it. I found what you said about filtering and sorting though all the information to be confusing like in your experience. Download the QTR RIP and Print-Tool, but then throw away the vendor's user's manual; download the Epson driver just for the utilities and then throw away that manual also.

Took a couple of days to figure out that the curve library for Lightroom was seperate from the one for QTR and that I didn't mess up the downloads. After that discovery I found that printing was more or less straight forward. I really appreciate the smoother long tonal range, the extra shadow detail, and especially the lack of dithering/airbrushing effect that I see from K3 inksets.

Cal
 
Jeff,

UPDATE: Thus far went through a 50 sheet box of 8 1/2x11's of Jon Cone Type 5. Due to a lot of post processing of DNG files into JPEG's for "Maggie's" blog I made a great stride in technical ability. I now have a good understanding of how all the controls in LR5 work interactively.

I learned that I have to add a bit more contrast to my image to match Eizo to my 3880. At this point printing involves no guessing. I add contrast by tweaking the shadows in both the tone controls and with the tone curve. It seems that an offset can be seen when switching inbetween softproof and normal. This offset is only in the blacks so it is a reliable way to adjust. I use the clipping indicators as a visual aid for a reference because my adjustment is for slightly darker from there. My offset seems almost like the same fixed amount, and the rest of the tonal range displayed on my Eizo remains what I see.

Tonal range and detail on 8 1/2x11's scream for a much larger print. My amount of 13x19's might become limited as 17x22's are exactly twice the size of my 8 1/2x11's I would use for proofing.

Very-very pleased with the results. Some of my best money ever spent. Interesting to see a true black without a contrasty image and the full range of tone.

Cal
 
thanks for the post....I have a set of Cone inks waiting for me to get stuff going......I suppose the best thing to do is get with it...I was always pretty happy with my Epson 3800 and the b/w output......thanks again,Bill
 
Glad to hear things are going along so well, Cal. Indeed, you and I seem to be traversing the same ground!

Like you, I do all my proofing at 8 1/2 x 11. And then, for select images, I print larger at 13x19 or 17x22. I wish I had a bigger printer. Absolutely stunning results with the K7 inks...

Also like you, I am finding the clipping feature in LR to be invaluable. Much more important than when I used OEM inks and there was a lot more guesswork involved. It's a wonderful thing staring at a soft-proof on the Eizo and knowing that all those pixels just this side of going clipped will hold detail in the print. Piezography rocks.

I ordered a full set of Selenium K7 inks to go with my present Warm Neutral inkset, along with another set of refillable carts (and more JC5 paper) from inkjetmall. The box showed up late yesterday. Later today I should have my first split-toned prints coming to life. Am excited to see how that will work out!

Bill, life is short. Dive into those inks!
 
Jager said:
Glad to hear things are going along so well, Cal. Indeed, you and I seem to be traversing the same ground!

Like you, I do all my proofing at 8 1/2 x 11. And then, for select images, I print larger at 13x19 or 17x22. I wish I had a bigger printer. Absolutely stunning results with the K7 inks...

Also like you, I am finding the clipping feature in LR to be invaluable. Much more important than when I used OEM inks and there was a lot more guesswork involved. It's a wonderful thing staring at a soft-proof on the Eizo and knowing that all those pixels just this side of going clipped will hold detail in the print. Piezography rocks.

I ordered a full set of Selenium K7 inks to go with my present Warm Neutral inkset, along with another set of refillable carts (and more JC5 paper) from inkjetmall. The box showed up late yesterday. Later today I should have my first split-toned prints coming to life. Am excited to see how that will work out!

Bill, life is short. Dive into those inks!
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Jeff,

I'm currently have a 50/50 mix in shade 4, and I like the results. Know that if I don't have the blacks boosted enough that the warmth gets a bit exaggerated.

When I nail the contrast just right the warmth becomes rather subdued. It seems the split tone transition when it is the most subtle has the strongest effect of making the image dramatically more 3-D. Warm shadows make the cool highlights really pop. It is a very delicate balance. My early attemps for broad tonal range by not boosting contrast had actually handicaped my images. A bit of shadow clipping it seems is required to create a true black.

Bill, Going with Piezography was some of my best money spent. I find that I'm printing a lot (50, 8 1/2x11's since January 7th). The level of control offered makes for stunning results. Printing is both exciting and fun. The 3800 I understand is another workhorse of a printer.

The Jon Cone Type 5 paper seems to be a superior product. My interest in other papers seems to be limited to Canson Baryta and Canson Photographique.

Not sure if I want the expense of a second or larger printer at this point. Might be more cost feasible to use PiezoPress for my ocasional 24x36 inch prints. My friend Jeff tried to keep a smaller printer going along with a 3880 and now he has problems with clogged nozzels running OEM K3 inks.

Cal
 
Jeff,

UPDATE: I ordered another 200 sheets of 8 1/2x11 Jon Cone Type 5 Baryta and 220ml of Selenium shade 3. Yesterday I blended 25% Selenium with 75% warm neutral in shade three to go with a 50-50 warm neutral/Selenium blend in shade 4.

I wanted to tone down the warmth a tad because with some files the prints are overly warm. I figured I didn't need much of a change to get the tonality I wanted, but I was very surprised by the results from such a small change. Now it seems the prints overall are much more "neutral" in that they are not overly warm. The split tone is still evident and the 3-D effect of seperation between highlights and shadows, but the transition is mucho smooth in a great way. I think I have found a sweet spot with the 25/75 shade 3 and 50/50 shade 4 that gives me the split tone I want.

My next experiment is to blend a 25/75 for shade 5 and 50/50 for shade 6 to recapture the warmth, by shifting the split into the upper mids while still maintaining cool highlights. I expect the transition to be smooth, but I am thinking the highlights might stand out more and be more pronounced.

I'm not printing high contrast, and there is only a hint of true black, but there seems to be a gelitine like glow that is wonderful to hold in the hand. I can only imagine further development in a larger print.

Cal
 
Glad to hear it's going well, Cal. You seem to have hit on a combination that is really working for you. One of the cool things is the almost infinite variety of tonal renderings that one can conjure. I've already thought of how cool it would be to have a second printer so as to be able to run a second inkset at the same time.

I definitely hear you with how the Selenium in the lower tones moves the print more towards neutral. I love my original Warm Neutral inkset. But its hint of sepia wasn't always the best for every kind of print.

I've actually reversed my split-tone setup from what you're doing. I'm running Selenium inks in shades 1, 2, 3, and 4; and Warm Neutral inks in shades 5, 6, and 7. The shadows through to the mid-tones are much cooler, with warmth emerging as you head into the highlights. More neutral, and more akin to a silver gelatin print (and selenium printing in the darkroom, which drives that coolness into the shadows).

No mixing of channels yet, like you're doing, but I may try that at some point.

Right now I'm printing nearly every day (running through a lot of paper and ink, like you) and just enjoying the output so much. Piezography's innate tonal separation is given even more distinction when you multi-tone an image. It can be just so amazing!

I've got a 16 x 20" print in an exhibition starting later this month and I am just so happy with how it looks. I spend so much time thinking about how the final, printed product will look that it surprises me that so many otherwise good photographers give the printing end of their craft such short shrift. (But then, having said that, I shouldn't be surprised... I was one of those photographers for a long time!)
 
Jeff,

I think you will be very surprised in how neutral a print gets with the blending I mentioned above.

Your inverse selenium to warm neutral is very appealing to me, and I think in the future I will definately try it. I'm an all or nothing kinda guy, I held off from printing even though I've owned a Monochrom for over two years. I knew for me it was going all the way or don't go. In my case I only have begun to develope any digital post processing skill.

Already I'm very happy with my results, and since I'm printing in full immersion mode I'm learn a lot. I found that using Piezography not to be so complicated and difficult. Very well engineered and designed. My next big jump will be printing 13x19 and 17x22. I'll be using Jon Cone 5 and rear feeding. My understanding is that with Jone Cone 5 there is no difficulty with Pizza Wheeling like with other papers that require front loading.

I figure it will be a few more intense months of printing before I experiment with any more changes in inks. I would refrain from getting a second printer unless you intend to fully utilize it, meaning printing at least several times a week. An idle printer runs the risk of premature death, but understand I'm already contemplating getting another 3880 or a larger printer already.

Good luck with the upcoming show.

Cal
 
Interesting read, and very well written.
Certainly has made me think more about digital printing, something I had never really considered.
 
jsrockit said:
Cal, what does this term mean?
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John,

With Piezography glossy printing there is a second printing of a gloss overcoat to eliminate gloss differential and bronzing. A print is made, then dried, then a thin layer of gloss overcoat is then printed to fully print the print. It seems that with some thick heavy "art papers" that the paper transport rollers imparts a horizontal line onto the prints. This is most visible on the blacks and dark sections of the print.

Interesting to note if you are still considering getting a printer that I would avoid desk top printers and go with a "Pro" model for the more advanced paper feed and paper transport, especially if you ever intend on making large prints. The next sized printer larger than my 3880 uses a vacuum platen to keep the paper flat. My 3880 has a good paper transport that is better than any desktop printer, but it is not the best when compared to the even larger printers.

Here's some smut that might be useful to you: understand that this gloss overcoat can be used over color ink to make color prints more vibrant. It is compatable with Epson K7 inks and Cone Color inks which can be blended. If I were you I would consider going this route and utilizing refillable carts for both performance and economy.

Understand that the printer driver I'm using is third party made by Roy Harrington (QuadtoneRIP) that lacks the dither that creates an airbrush like effect of lower resolution to make up for less shades of black. Pretty sure this driver can be used for higher performance than the OEM Epson driver for color also.

This Jon Cone type 5 Baryta paper I'm using is the slackers way because it is optimized for Piezograpghy. There is a big jump in IQ in my prints from the last time I showed you. The Jone Cone papers don't require work arounds and extra steps to avoid pizza wheels.

Cal
 
sweathog said:
Interesting read, and very well written.
Certainly has made me think more about digital printing, something I had never really considered.
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Sweathog,

I use to be a total die-hard retro B&W film only guy, but then Leica made the Monochrom. Never-ever thought I would go digital. I have been shooting my Monochrom for over two years now, and only recently have beed printing digitally (since January 2015). I still shoot mucho film, but the results, meaning prints, are compelling. Best money ever spent, and this is a guy who went to art school in the 70's.

Currently I'm also getting 20x30 inch prints made from Digital Silver Imaging which are wet prints made from Monochrom files. The results here are also stunning. On one landscape image I have a zoomed in crop (8x10) of a 40x60 ich print as a proof/sample. All of the sudden I learn that I can do a "Salgado" and wet print from a digital capture on a rediculas scale.

Anyways, not for everyone, it gets mighty expensive, but the end results are beyond expectations if you want to go there. In comparing a DSI wet print against a Piezography print: each medium is different enough that you really can't compare them. Each holds it's own, none is superior over the other, they are just different with there own merits.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
John,

With Piezography glossy printing there is a second printing of a gloss overcoat to eliminate gloss differential and bronzing. A print is made, then dried, then a thin layer of gloss overcoat is then printed to fully print the print. It seems that with some thick heavy "art papers" that the paper transport rollers imparts a horizontal line onto the prints. This is most visible on the blacks and dark sections of the print.

Interesting to note if you are still considering getting a printer that I would avoid desk top printers and go with a "Pro" model for the more advanced paper feed and paper transport, especially if you ever intend on making large prints. The next sized printer larger than my 3880 uses a vacuum platen to keep the paper flat. My 3880 has a good paper transport that is better than any desktop printer, but it is not the best when compared to the even larger printers.

Here's some smut that might be useful to you: understand that this gloss overcoat can be used over color ink to make color prints more vibrant. It is compatable with Epson K7 inks and Cone Color inks which can be blended. If I were you I would consider going this route and utilizing refillable carts for both performance and economy.

Understand that the printer driver I'm using is third party made by Roy Harrington (QuadtoneRIP) that lacks the dither that creates an airbrush like effect of lower resolution to make up for less shades of black. Pretty sure this driver can be used for higher performance than the OEM Epson driver for color also.

This Jon Cone type 5 Baryta paper I'm using is the slackers way because it is optimized for Piezograpghy. There is a big jump in IQ in my prints from the last time I showed you. The Jone Cone papers don't require work arounds and extra steps to avoid pizza wheels.

Cal
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Thanks Cal... interesting. Yes, I'm still going to get a printer. I'm just not sure which route I'm going. And thanks for the tips... I was aware of the QuadtoneRIP, but wasn't aware that there were Cone color inks.
 
Calzone said:
Sweathog,

I use to be a total die-hard retro B&W film only guy, but then Leica made the Monochrom. Never-ever thought I would go digital. I have been shooting my Monochrom for over two years now, and only recently have beed printing digitally (since January 2015). I still shoot mucho film, but the results, meaning prints, are compelling. Best money ever spent, and this is a guy who went to art school in the 70's.

Currently I'm also getting 20x30 inch prints made from Digital Silver Imaging which are wet prints made from Monochrom files. The results here are also stunning. On one landscape image I have a zoomed in crop (8x10) of a 40x60 ich print as a proof/sample. All of the sudden I learn that I can do a "Salgado" and wet print from a digital capture on a rediculas scale.

Anyways, not for everyone, it gets mighty expensive, but the end results are beyond expectations if you want to go there. In comparing a DSI wet print against a Piezography print: each medium is different enough that you really can't compare them. Each holds it's own, none is superior over the other, they are just different with there own merits.

Cal
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Thanks for that additional info Cal. Definitely food for thought. Hopefully by the end of the year I'll be in a position to try something (moving in 6 months so don't want to incur the wrath of the better half by beginning new tinkerings before then).
 
I was curious about Piezo inks for a long time now, even ordered a sample pack of prints in various ink tones. I was VERY impressed by what this system can do, great tonality and shadow detail. Would probably have to get a second hand R2000 to use with it since I want to keep an ability to do color prints on my primary printer.
 
arseniii said:
I was curious about Piezo inks for a long time now, even ordered a sample pack of prints in various ink tones. I was VERY impressed by what this system can do, great tonality and shadow detail. Would probably have to get a second hand R2000 to use with it since I want to keep an ability to do color prints on my primary printer.
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What impressed me the most is the capabilities of making digital negatives for wet contact printing. The resolution and broad tonality is that high of I.Q.

I spent about two years planning because all this required a big commitment of time and money, but the dividends are now paying off. It costs nothing to do the research to figure out what is good and works for you. Plenty of information to filter through and mine for free.

Using a desktop has its advantages because changing inks does not require wasting lots of ink due to desktop printers not having "dampers" loaded with ink. It seems that Epson inks are comparable with Jon Cone inks. The color yellow seems stuborn to flush, but you might be able to get away with one printer. Check out Piezoflush.

Cal
 
jsrockit said:
Thanks Cal... interesting. Yes, I'm still going to get a printer. I'm just not sure which route I'm going. And thanks for the tips... I was aware of the QuadtoneRIP, but wasn't aware that there were Cone color inks.
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John,

If I were into color printing, I'd definately would go with loading my own inks to save money. Also it seems that GO (gloss overcoat) adds vibrance and detail to color prints.

I very much like QuadtoneRIP because it is very easy to use. Remember how I lack any digital skills. Simple, efficient, and effective are all good.

Cal
 
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