Advice Requested: How to receive payment from Belgium

[ornate_wrasse]

I was reading the posts about getting burned when selling camera related items to residents of foreign countries. Now I find I am in that very same situation myself, i.e. selling a camera related item to a resident of a foreign country. Haven't been burned yet, thank goodness, and that's why I am posting for advice on receiving payment from the buyer.

Here's the story:

I'm selling a Subal underwater housing for my D70 for $675 and have had it listed for sale on an underwater photography forum (NOT Ebay) on which I am a moderator (www.wetpixel.com). There's an image of it on my web site in case anyone cares to look. I receved an inquiry from someone in Belgium who wants to buy it. There have been several emails exchanged between us and I'm not getting any bad vibes whatsoever from our interaction so far. I told him I'd pay half of the shipping which will cost $64.05. This morning I received the following email from him:

Hi Ellen,

For me the cost for shipping is ok. How do we arange the payment? You know a secure method?

Kind regards,

xxxx

I am very reluctant to ask for payment using PayPal after reading about all of the horror stories and was thinking of asking him to pay me with an International Money Order and send the housing to him after it clears the bank.

I'd like to hear opinions on asking for payment using International Money Order in order to ensure that I am not scammed.

What does everyone think?

Elen

 

[kully]

An IBAN transfer within Europe is simple (a little less so for the UK). Ask your bank. If you live somewhere else in the world, then this is not an option.

If I was the buyer, I would drop out of the sale if asked to do a money transfer, it reeks of a scam.

 

[ornate_wrasse]

An IBAN transfer within Europe is simple (a little less so for the UK). Ask your bank. If you live somewhere else in the world, then this is not an option.

If I was the buyer, I would drop out of the sale if asked to do a money transfer, it reeks of a scam.

Since I live in the United States, it doesn't sound like the IBAN transfer would work for me.

The thing that is good about the International Money Order , at least IMHO, is that the buyer would send it by mail to me and I would then deposit it into my bank account.

I was also thinking that the fact that I am a moderator on the forum where he saw the ad gives me some credibility.

Ellen

 

[robbeiflex]

Wire transfers do work but are very expensive, like $30, $40, or more, but if it is important enough then it's worth it. You need the bank's SWIFT BIC (Business Identifier Code) an eight character code, along with all other details (bank name and address, account, account holders name and address, etc.). When it comes to small payments, PayPal is generally much more affordable. You should offer the buyer both options, and they can contact their bank to see what a wire transfer would cost. If you prefer some kind of cheque (check?) or money order then don't hold your breath, most European banks haven't touched cheques for years and rarely handle any real money. Belgium, in particular is one of the leaders in automating that stuff.

Cheers,
Rob

 

[robbeiflex]

Alternative answer: Based on banking secrecy and tax benefits, maybe you should leave the money in Belgium, or better yet send it to us in Luxembourg and we'll take care of it for you. 😉

 

[ornate_wrasse]

If you prefer some kind of cheque (check?) or money order then don't hold your breath, most European banks haven't touched cheques for years and rarely handle any real money. Belgium, in particular is one of the leaders in automating that stuff.

Rob,

Thanks for all of that great information. It was very helpful. But I have one question: Isn't there a Post Office where one could go to in Belgium to buy an International Money Order to send to the United States?

Ellen

 

[robbeiflex]

Rob,

Thanks for all of that great information. It was very helpful. But I have one question: Isn't there a Post Office where one could go to in Belgium to buy an International Money Order to send to the United States?

Ellen

Probably, as there is a Post utility/entity per country. Most of them are re-selling Western Union services, which is probably most useful to you. At least, that's what they do here in Luxembourg. I had a quick look at the Belgium post website and they do Western Union. Their information on cheques indicates that they are for within the country. Here is their website (french version) http://www.bpost.be/site/fr/residential/finance/index.html

As a funny aside, this prompted me to look up whether cheques are still used here in Luxembourg, and I found out that: "You can also get the postman to deliver your money at home.". 😱 😀 😕

I'm not making this up, see here: http://www.pt.lu/portal/lang/en/CCP/pid/909

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Phantomas]

I would not engage in any transaction outside Europe with anything other than PayPal. It costs money and time, but mostly money because of unnecessary expenses in face of availability of cheaper and instant services - PayPal. There are plenty of "US only" ads out there and I don't mind. Sellers have the right to be paranoid. But I'd rather not go through the hustle of complicated and costly transactions.

 

[johannielscom]

I recall reading here on RFF that PayPal is actually very good for sellers, if item is not sold through eBay. When selling through eBay, buyers have all the rights and sellers none, but if you use PP for payment and it's not an eBay sale, the buyer cannot reclaim the money or open a dispute at all.

Am I right on recalling this?

 

[ornate_wrasse]

I recall reading here on RFF that PayPal is actually very good for sellers, if item is not sold through eBay. When selling through eBay, buyers have all the rights and sellers none, but if you use PP for payment and it's not an eBay sale, the buyer cannot reclaim the money or open a dispute at all.

Am I right on recalling this?

I certainly hope you're right on recalling this information. If true, that would be fantastic news for me. I was already having visions of money being taken from my bank account after the sale and all kinds of thoughts like that. It sounds like I was worrying needlessly since it's not a transaction originating out of Ebay.

Keeping my fingers crossed it's true 😉

Ellen

 

[mervynyan]

I certainly hope you're right on recalling this information. If true, that would be fantastic news for me. I was already having visions of money being taken from my bank account after the sale and all kinds of thoughts like that. It sounds like I was worrying needlessly since it's not a transaction originating out of Ebay.

Keeping my fingers crossed it's true 😉

Ellen

For buying foreign transactions, I only use paypal with American Express charge card as funding source. If I am selling, then I will also consider bank wire transfer, cost about the same as paypal fee.

 

[HoodedOne]

I don't think it's possible, that money is taken from your bank account whitout your permission. Paypal is your best option, just let the buyer paypal the money, and then send the package. Make sure that the buyer has to sign for receiving the package (extra security).

 

[Paul T.]

PayPal is by far the best method for you and the buyer.

There can theoretically be instances of chargeback with PayPal, but ship the item tracked to a verified address and there's not realistically any reason to worry

 

[BillBingham2]

I've done several transactions (both buyer and seller ) via wire transfers and Payn Pal internationally. While Payn Pal is easy to use it does have a cost too and while I think outside the EvilBay world you should be safier one never knows. I do not think there is any regulatory agency watching over Payn Pal.

There are costs for curency transfer and for the services on Payn Pal. Wire transfers can happen in USD so you can save the costs. I would strongly recomend you split the cost of a wire transfer with the buyer and you will end up a LOT happier. Perhaps you pay the extra above what Payn Pal would charge you (in total).

First time you deal with a buyer the protection of a Wire Transfer is VERY comfortable to have.

B2 (;->

 

[ornate_wrasse]

There are costs for curency transfer and for the services on Payn Pal. Wire transfers can happen in USD so you can save the costs. I would strongly recomend you split the cost of a wire transfer with the buyer and you will end up a LOT happier.

First time you deal with a buyer the protection of a Wire Transfer is VERY comfortable to have.

B2 (;->

I really like the idea of receiving a wire transfer. Am I understanding this correctly- The buyer in Belgium can pay in US Dollars using a wire tranfer?

What I hear you saying is that with Payn Pal (really like that Pain Pal 😀) I will be charged for changing from the Euro to the US Dollar. Am I correct?

Ellen

 

[ZeissFan]

When I lived overseas, I sent and accepted international money orders frequently. If the member is active on the board, I wouldn't be too concerned. You could do Western Union, PayPal or a money order.

U.S. banks charge way too much for money transfers, although you could go that route. You'll lose about $30 or so on the transaction to bank fees.

The bigger issue is ensuring that some animal in one of the postal services in the U.S., Belgium or somewhere in between doesn't damage your package.

I would double-box the gear. If it costs a bit more to ship, you're better off in the long run than having to deal with a damaged piece of equipment.

 

[gliderbee]

I recall reading here on RFF that PayPal is actually very good for sellers, if item is not sold through eBay. When selling through eBay, buyers have all the rights and sellers none, but if you use PP for payment and it's not an eBay sale, the buyer cannot reclaim the money or open a dispute at all.

Am I right on recalling this?

I remember those rules also in that way.

To have a claim through Paypal as a buyer, there are quite a lot of conditions to be met: correct value indicated for shipping, by Paypal verified address to ship to, etc ... (it's somewhere in the Helop-section the Paypal site)

If, as a seller, you "violate" one of these rules (e.g. buy shipping to a non-verified address on request of the buyer), the buyer will have no claim if something goes wrong.

Stefan.

 

[BillBingham2]

Ellen,

Check with your bank(s) to see what options they have. Citibank allows for really low cost transfer of funds between the US and just about everywhere (except Japan, CRAP). Some banks have agreements with overseas banks, prices varry a lot.

Wiretransfers are tricky but as long as you get the numbers right (where the money is going to (read your account)) it works VERY WELL and there is no way the money will ever be sucked back from you.

Reach out to your buyer and see what bank they do business with over there. ING is pretty big with branches here in the states. ABN AMRO was around but I think they got absorbed by someone. Not sure who else is big over there these days. Take a walk down to your bank and see what they have to offer and the cost.

Double check on the Payn Pal side but I remember they charge you comming and going when ever they can. Lack of regulators really helps from time to time, but more often than not for us (read users) it really sucks.

Sorry I can not be more specific but every bank is different. Tell your bank what you want to do keep asking what other options they come up with till they say they have no more three times. Often you need to talk with an "Officer" rather than a teller (more training and higher level of responsibility), perhaps a branch manager or assistant manager.

Good luck and let us (at least me please) know what you find out.

B2 (;->

 

[sevo]

I really like the idea of receiving a wire transfer. Am I understanding this correctly- The buyer in Belgium can pay in US Dollars using a wire tranfer?

What I hear you saying is that with Payn Pal (really like that Pain Pal 😀) I will be charged for changing from the Euro to the US Dollar. Am I correct?

The buyer in Belgium can transfer in US Dollars pretty much regardless what service he uses, and then the cost of conversion will be on him - no difference with Paypal there.

 

[Beemermark]

If the buyer uses an Post Office International Postal Money Order you can cash it immediately at the post office. Before Ebay and Paypal all transaction were done with Postal Money orders. Very hard to counterfeit and the governments treat them like cash.