Agfa Isolette flare/glare problem...

[Ben Blacket]

Ok, I'll post a pic after the long weekend.
Yeah, you're right about the different versions, I guess some used better/different parts than others.
Mine's of the normal "ventura 66 deluxe" variety that I've seen.

 

[chippy]

cheers it wil be goodto see a pic...

on rare occasions there is the odd post war isolette that had leather bellows instead of the standard...and i have some pre-war models that came (standard i think) with leather.

 

[charjohncarter]

Has Squall posted any post hood photos? I'd like to see some.

 

[chubasco]

Sorry, guys, thought this was a dead thread! (Hi Jes, nice to see
you here, too!) Anyhoo, here's three shots after the lens cleaning
and using the hood:

Light was a little wonky, but I think this cut down the flare/glare problem by at least half. Comments, sneers, giggles, welcome! BTW, if I start to post here more often, suggest you get a big bottle of Visine to place by your monitor! LOL

Yep, still learning focus issues with this cam, as in the first pic. This is using Fomapan 100, scanned at 1200dpi, in future I'll be
shooting with ISO 400 film so I can stop down, more.

Bill

 

[chippy]

what type of scanner are you using Bill? scanners not my strong point and i am after one sooner or later....

obviously the pictures are much improved..it will be interesting to see the comparison with different film...and wit he faster film it may work easier to use the hyperfocal distance and aperature to help with keeping all in focus too

still nice interesting shots tho!

 

[chubasco]

Andrew, it's an Epson 4490 that Epsononline had on sale for $82 (delivered) a
refurbed model that looked brand new when it arrived, this was last November.
I'm going to be shooting the 400 film very soon, so will see what shakes.

Thanks for your comments,

Bill

 

[charjohncarter]

Thanks for posting the photos, I'm sending my Speedex II (Isolette II) out tomorrow for the full deal: bellows, CLA. When i get it back I'll run a roll and forward them on to you, I won't be using a hood so we will see.

 

[FallisPhoto]

i far as i know they are one and the same camera! perhaps you could post a pic of yours?

the isolette for europe...the speedex in US and the poms get the ventura 66 deluxe....of course anyone can end up with either of them, but the point is that the ventura models are just export versions of the isolette's

Venturas and Speedexes were sold in America. Isolettes were sold in Europe. The Ventura 66 was an Isolette II, usually with an Agnar lens, but occasionally with an Apotar. The Ventura 66 Delux was an Isolette II with a Solinar lens.

 

[chippy]

Venturas and Speedexes were sold in America. Isolettes were sold in Europe. The Ventura 66 was an Isolette II, usually with an Agnar lens, but occasionally with an Apotar. The Ventura 66 Delux was an Isolette II with a Solinar lens.

I think you will find (at least i would like to see different) the ventura 66 is just an Iso V.

And well i say the ventura for the poms just because that is where i had seen most of them end up, but i didn't exclude them from going to america. And after 1952 it seems possible that they were still exported to england as ventura instead of speedex.

so i checked my referance it confirmes the Ventura 66 is an Isolette V (simular looking top plate to Bills Isolette I, but slightly different top and features) which of course came with angar lens, it was a base model. export verisions sold as ventura 66 in 1950 and in the US from 1952 as Ansco speedex. the Isolette II as we know came with its range of lens/shutter combinations and this was exported as Ventura 66 deluxe in 1950 and then in the US from 1952 as the Ansco Speedex Special usually just with the f3.5 solinar.

they are the same camera (nuts,bolts and body etc) as the isolette. the same camera for their respective models. the speedex special with a solinar doesnt make it a different camera to the Iso II..the Iso II had them as well

 

[FallisPhoto]

I think you will find (at least i would like to see different) the ventura 66 is just an Iso V.

And well i say the ventura for the poms just because that is where i had seen most of them end up, but i didn't exclude them from going to america. And after 1952 it seems possible that they were still exported to england as ventura instead of speedex.

so i checked my referance it confirmes the Ventura 66 is an Isolette V (simular looking top plate to Bills Isolette I, but slightly different top and features) which of course came with angar lens, it was a base model. export verisions sold as ventura 66 in 1950 and in the US from 1952 as Ansco speedex. the Isolette II as we know came with its range of lens/shutter combinations and this was exported as Ventura 66 deluxe in 1950 and then in the US from 1952 as the Ansco Speedex Special usually just with the f3.5 solinar.

they are the same camera (nuts,bolts and body etc) as the isolette. the same camera for their respective models. the speedex special with a solinar doesnt make it a different camera to the Iso II..the Iso II had them as well

I checked again, and I think I'm confusing the Ventura 66 and the Ventura 66 Delux. I was just assuming that the 66 was a low grade 66 Delux (no solinar and a lesser shutter). In fact, the Isolette II was a budget version of the Ventura 66 Delux. Yes, most of the Isolettes, Speedexes and Venturas were all the same cameras, just sold under different names. The Ventura 66 Delux was intended to be the highest end version of the Isolette II, and I believe it was sold mainly in America (and thus was named after Ventura, California). As I understand it, the Solinar lens was an option on the Isolette II, but it was standard on the Ventura 66 Delux.

From my own reference:

"The post-war Agfa Isolette II was introduced at the end of 1952 as a down markert version of the Agfa Ventura 66 DeLuxe. The Ventura 66 Deluxe and Isolette II, which were sold concurrently until the end of 1953, represented a substantial post-war face lift for the original 1938 Isolette. The new features include a redesigned right-handed film advance that now had a rudementary double exposure prevention system and improved shutter/lens combinations.
As the flagship of the Isolette line, the early Venutra 66 Deluxe was fitted with Agfa's top-of-the-line 4 element, coated, Tessar-type, Solinar lens, which was set within a deluxe 9 speed Compur-Rapid shutter assembly. It was Agfa's first post-war foray into the premium folder market. The Ventura 66 Deluxe was a direct competitor of the ultra-compact Voigtlander Perkeo II and the exquisitly well made Zeiss-Ikon Ikonta. The Ventura 66 "Deluxe" was dropped from the Agfa line up with the introduction of the Isolette III in 1954."

 

[chippy]

its an interesting discussion Charles. i find all these little things (history of how and where the cameras evolved) and the differences between them almost as great as using them (it certainly adds to fun of using and collecting vintage cameras) and of course we both like pulling them apart and putting them back together lol. however if i can i will point out a few things that until it can be shown to me (and i am happy to be proven wrong--i would rather have the truth of the matter of course) i still beleive that the Ventura is simply an export model (same camera only the name on the front door different and scale in feet) of a Isolette.

I checked again, and I think I'm confusing the Ventura 66 and the Ventura 66 Delux. I was just assuming that the 66 was a low grade 66 Delux (no solinar and a lesser shutter).

an easy mistake; but of course the Ventura 66 is an Iso V and a Ventura 66 delux is an Iso II with the only differnce being the name on the door.

In fact, the Isolette II was a budget version of the Ventura 66 Delux.
Yes, most of the Isolettes, Speedexes and Venturas were all the same cameras, just sold under different names. The Ventura 66 Delux was intended to be the highest end version of the Isolette II

i disagree with this even though it is written on that web page which appears very informative at first glance and from that many other people have repeated it and before we know it everyone thinks it is true. however based on my information (and because i always like to seek out reliable referance from more than one place--just a part of my training from University or maybe stubon lol)) they are one and the same camera. the Ventura 66 Delux is listed as having been offered with apotar in prontor-s or solinar with compur rapid. obviously we dont have production numbers but it may well be that more where sold with solinar but they were still available with apotar as well. i think it only stands to reason as well..

it is beyond reason that Agfa would build Isolette II that is available with solinar and compur rapid (i have one that is pre 1952) and then build a 'flagship' Ventura 66 deluxe that is meant to be better. in what way was it better, none that i can see. in fact the Ventura was for export. Germans expect quality in their cameras and i can not imagine that they would of settled for camera (an Isolette II) with lesser lens/shutter options and be satisfyed that the best camera (Ventura) was being exported!. the more common pratice was the opposite where an export camera may have been offered not to have the entire range and may miss out on lower end or mid range options.

the Venutra name was agfa export name for the Isolette from 1950 and after the restructuring of the agfa/ansco company again in 1952 where Agfa founded 'Agfa AG for Photofrabrication' (my translation from german text) the section of the company that made film in the provance of Leverkusen and also 'Agfa camera-works AG' in Munich . it was at this time of restructuring their company in 1952 agfa decided to drop the venutra name for export (at least in the US to begin with) and give the Ansco and Speedex name a more prominant role obviously for marketing purposes.

, and I believe it was sold mainly in America (and thus was named after Ventura, California).

thats an interesting hypothesis but i am not sure how to prove it. it may just as well of been more likely based on the meaning of the word from Italian/spanish background meaning good fortune. considering that in 1950 the city of Ventura was probably not well known and only had a population of around 16,000 i am not sure how that would of helped with marketing stratergies. and although the US Army PX placed an order with agfa for the camera they were sold elsewhere as well...its doubtfull anyone else knew at the time of a town called Ventura, the name would of been more famous to Italy and Spain i would think (they have famous people with that name)...still you never know there may of been an American from that neck of the woods influencing Agfa with the name! if it was named after an american town (which sorry but i doubt very much) then it didn't hold much appeal to the americans!..the 'speedex' name seemed to have more marketability in the western counties--

As I understand it, the Solinar lens was an option on the Isolette II, but it was standard on the Ventura 66 Delux.

i have information that show the Ventura 66 Delux is listed as having been offered with apotar in prontor-s or solinar with compur rapid, tho it may very well of been offered with more choices at some time (or from a different catologue or source). even if it did, though evidence i can see says that it was offered with apotar,, having less options than an Isolette II doesnt make it a 'better' or 'flagship' camera. it just makes it the flagship camera available with less choice of lenses and shutter than the Iso II, but obviously with the top lens/shutter combnation it still counts as equal to the Iso II but not better!

From my own reference:

"The post-war Agfa Isolette II was introduced at the end of 1952 as a down markert version of the Agfa Ventura 66 DeLuxe. The Ventura 66 Deluxe and Isolette II, which were sold concurrently until the end of 1953, represented a substantial post-war face lift for the original 1938 Isolette. The new features include a redesigned right-handed film advance that now had a rudementary double exposure prevention system and improved shutter/lens combinations.
As the flagship of the Isolette line, the early Venutra 66 Deluxe was fitted with Agfa's top-of-the-line 4 element, coated, Tessar-type, Solinar lens, which was set within a deluxe 9 speed Compur-Rapid shutter assembly. It was Agfa's first post-war foray into the premium folder market. The Ventura 66 Deluxe was a direct competitor of the ultra-compact Voigtlander Perkeo II and the exquisitly well made Zeiss-Ikon Ikonta. The Ventura 66 "Deluxe" was dropped from the Agfa line up with the introduction of the Isolette III in 1954."

it looks like that information is from this page? http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html

clearly that is a page that everyone whom is interested in Isolette's see's at some point. and while i think it is generaly a very good page but i think it has many mistakes..particularly with dates of production/release of the cameras. i tend to think that was the best information he had at the time when he produced the page in 2004 or before?? and possibly based it (maybe in part) on a brochure or two that said the ventura was the 'flagship' of agfa's line up but that sort of thing on its own is misleading. i have seen the odd other pages that obviously copied his words (almost word for word) that dont help and only spead inaccuracy.

i'm certainly not arguing (discussing the point from a different angle) to be difficult but i have collected information from many sources, including Leo Hilkhuijsen who is an expert on agfa and provided information to others (that published books) inluding Mckeowns in 2005-2006 (later than that web pages info dated 2004) and others too...at some point all the other information simply outways that one page and a couple that copied it..

in the end tho all one has to do is look at both cameras, my 1950 Isolette II with solinar and compur-rapid is exactly (bar the name on the front door) the same as the 1951-52 ventura 66 deluxe--crappy non leather bellows and all- on both--not one detail is better or different between them

 

[FallisPhoto]

its an interesting discussion Charles. i find all these little things (history of how and where the cameras evolved) and the differences between them almost as great as using them (it certainly adds to fun of using and collecting vintage cameras) and of course we both like pulling them apart and putting them back together lol. however if i can i will point out a few things that until it can be shown to me (and i am happy to be proven wrong--i would rather have the truth of the matter of course) i still beleive that the Ventura is simply an export model (same camera only the name on the front door different and scale in feet) of a Isolette.

There is a LOT of confusing and contradictory info on Isolettes scattered around. According to this page: http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/isoletteii.html Isolette IIs only ever had Apotars. Now I have personally seen Isolette IIs with Solinars, so I know that can't be right (come to think of it, it might have come off of a Ventura though). Jurgen Kreckel says all sorts of things about all sorts of cameras (including Isolettes) on his page that my experience has shown to be incorrect. Another page I found states that Agfa stopped making cameras in europe 1938 and all cameras made after then were made by Ansco, in the USA. Hell, half the web sites out there call some of them Jsolettes. I tend to doubt anything I read about Isolettes until I can personally verify it by handling the cameras. Still, the preponderance of what is written that I have read and my personal experience has Isolette II cameras mostly fitted with Apotars and Ventura 66 Delux cameras mostly fitted with Solinars.

i disagree with this even though it is written on that web page which appears very informative at first glance and from that many other people have repeated it and before we know it everyone thinks it is true. however based on my information (and because i always like to seek out reliable referance from more than one place--just a part of my training from University or maybe stubon lol)) they are one and the same camera. the Ventura 66 Delux is listed as having been offered with apotar in prontor-s or solinar with compur rapid. obviously we dont have production numbers but it may well be that more where sold with solinar but they were still available with apotar as well. i think it only stands to reason as well..

I don't know, Andrew. What's the sense of offering the same camera under yet another name, when you already have two going, unless there is something different about it? I can understand why Agfa might not be a popular name immediately after WWII and why they might prefer to sell them here as Speedexes.

it is beyond reason that Agfa would build Isolette II that is available with solinar and compur rapid (i have one that is pre 1952) and then build a 'flagship' Ventura 66 deluxe that is meant to be better. in what way was it better, none that i can see. in fact the Ventura was for export. Germans expect quality in their cameras and i can not imagine that they would of settled for camera (an Isolette II) with lesser lens/shutter options and be satisfyed that the best camera (Ventura) was being exported!. the more common pratice was the opposite where an export camera may have been offered not to have the entire range and may miss out on lower end or mid range options.

Remember that this was immediately following WWII. In Germany, many people were living in rubble and almost nobody could afford even a low quality camera, let alone a good one. In fact, until about 1952, as a lingering effect of the Marshall Plan, which severly limited German industry ... well, this is from Wikipedia:
"The effects of the Marshall Plan were far more wide-reaching than originally predicted. The effect of Germany's industrial economy on that of Europe's total economy was greatly underestimated; after the Plan's implementation, the now-suppressed German economy began dragging down the whole continent's economy. Conditions became so bad that William L. Clayton, an economic adviser to then -U.S. President Harry S. Truman at the Potsdam Conference, reported back to Washington, D.C. that "millions of people are slowly starving.""

thats an interesting hypothesis but i am not sure how to prove it. it may just as well of been more likely based on the meaning of the word from Italian/spanish background meaning good fortune. considering that in 1950 the city of Ventura was probably not well known and only had a population of around 16,000 i am not sure how that would of helped with marketing stratergies. and although the US Army PX placed an order with agfa for the camera they were sold elsewhere as well...its doubtfull anyone else knew at the time of a town called Ventura, the name would of been more famous to Italy and Spain i would think (they have famous people with that name)...still you never know there may of been an American from that neck of the woods influencing Agfa with the name! if it was named after an american town (which sorry but i doubt very much) then it didn't hold much appeal to the americans!..the 'speedex' name seemed to have more marketability in the western counties--

Ventura was extremely famous back then -- in the movies. It was known for having the best surfing in all of California then. In an era famous (or perhaps infamous would be a more apt word) for its "beach movies," and for every other rock and roll song on the radio being about a beach, it was very well known indeed. Some of those movies still show up on late-night TV here. I generally avoid them like the plague. I can see how someone would get the impression that Ventura might be a good marketing name here though -- I suppose if they had sold a whole lot of them in Australia we might be calling them "Bondi 66s."

it looks like that information is from this page? http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html

clearly that is a page that everyone whom is interested in Isolette's see's at some point. and while i think it is generaly a very good page but i think it has many mistakes..

Name one page on Isolettes anywhere that doesn't. Everything I have seen on the net is riddled with errors.

in the end tho all one has to do is look at both cameras, my 1950 Isolette II with solinar and compur-rapid is exactly (bar the name on the front door) the same as the 1951-52 ventura 66 deluxe--crappy non leather bellows and all- on both--not one detail is better or different between them

That I'll trust.

 

[chippy]

There is a LOT of confusing and contradictory info on Isolettes scattered around. According to this page: http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/isoletteii.html Isolette IIs only ever had Apotars.

i think they are just saying that the examples they are showing on thier page only have apotars. they say that they were available with a variety of lenses;

"Whilst all Isolette II cameras are basically the same - they were fitted with a variety of lenses and shutters. The Pronto listed above is fairly basic. The best shutters were Compur - and many Prontor shutters which are also quite good were used. A selection of shutters is shown below. In all cases an Apotar lens is fitted. This was Agfa's mid range 3 element design. Better than the Agnar - but not as good as the Solinar"

Now I have personally seen Isolette IIs with Solinars, so I know that can't be right (come to think of it, it might have come off of a Ventura though).

of course i have no way of knowing what you saw but i can assure you I have seen quite a few Iso II with solinar (not heaps mind but every now and again) and i have a couple myself, a very early one and a later one. but yes they seem much scarcer than w/apotar. FWIW we in Oz seem to have gotten all of the name variants as imports, although the Isolettes as imports back then came in as imperial measurement as Oz hadnt gone metric back then yet

Jurgen Kreckel says all sorts of things about all sorts of cameras (including Isolettes) on his page that my experience has shown to be incorrect. Another page I found states that Agfa stopped making cameras in europe 1938 and all cameras made after then were made by Ansco, in the USA.

yeah well JK .....nuff said. as for the confusion about agfa and ansco it does get murky because they swapped and chaged what they called themselfs in brochures at different times to suit marketing and their company changed its structure a few times...its just to long to type out...but they did of course make cameras in germany!

Hell, half the web sites out there call some of them Jsolettes.

LOL yeah i know...it used to drive me nuts yonks back when i was trying to figure out what they really were called! but for anyone else reading this Jsolette is Isolette..some early Isolette have Jsolette on them with a 'J' instead of an 'I' (i have one or two of these somewhere as well) but the J is simply how I is written in script in german and obviously they changed it because (can i say because it was bloody stupid :bang:haha) it doesnt read right in english

I tend to doubt anything I read about Isolettes until I can personally verify it by handling the cameras. Still, the preponderance of what is written that I have read and my personal experience has Isolette II cameras mostly fitted with Apotars and Ventura 66 Delux cameras mostly fitted with Solinars.

i dont doubt that is your experiance (and probably many others as well) and probably is the reason why some people think the Ventura was a different camera per say. without production numbers which i dont have i couldnt say. but i think it entirely possible that most came as you say. the main point i am trying to get across is that they are the same camera, both were available with different lenses and the ventura was an export name. ...i can say that i have seen Isolette's as imports to Oz and many of them have solinar.

I don't know, Andrew. What's the sense of offering the same camera under yet another name, when you already have two going, unless there is something different about it? I can understand why Agfa might not be a popular name immediately after WWII and why they might prefer to sell them here as Speedexes.

i see where ya comming from because it doesnt appear to make sence at first....but well on one hand it was quite common for camera makers all through the twenties through the forties to sell their cameras to distributers and they would sell them under a different name...welta did it with thier weltix and the watson to the US...exact same dam camera just a different name! and yet even tho the watson was likely just meant for export, particulary the US you still ended up with weltix's there as well..doesnt make sence but it happened. venturas were rebadged Isolettes for export and the PX ordered some for the US and who knows how or who imported the isolette's that you have-maybe some enterprising firm that imported mostly cheaper apotar models to make a $$

but also if you take into account as you say it was just after the war (ventura produced 1950-52) that americans or the distributars may of preffered a different name to isolette (only a thought, not fact; but one could assume if some PX guy came and said to agfa we want to place an order for X amount of cameras but we want the name stamped different on the door they would do it). also i am pretty sure that up till about about 52 there were still laws in america about imports from germany or japan being required to have to state 'made in occupied germany' or 'japan' written on them to get around the tax thing. changing the name from a Isolette that would have been already registered as a german camera may of caused a problem with paper work, so a camera by the name of ventura may of helped with that considering agfa/ansco has some nth american links...just a thought..and then from 52 they changed to the speedex name anyway for the US

Remember that this was immediately following WWII. In Germany, many people were living in rubble and almost nobody could afford even a low quality camera, let alone a good one. In fact, until about 1952, as a lingering effect of the Marshall Plan, which severly limited German industry ... well, this is from Wikipedia:
"The effects of the Marshall Plan were far more wide-reaching than originally predicted. The effect of Germany's industrial economy on that of Europe's total economy was greatly underestimated; after the Plan's implementation, the now-suppressed German economy began dragging down the whole continent's economy. Conditions became so bad that William L. Clayton, an economic adviser to then -U.S. President Harry S. Truman at the Potsdam Conference, reported back to Washington, D.C. that "millions of people are slowly starving.""

indeed very trying times for the folk of europe, it was inportant to get the german economy/industry up and running again and not to try and reduce them to a farming comunty as they made that mistake after the first war and in a signifancant way led to the second because of that.....

Ventura was extremely famous back then -- in the movies. It was known for having the best surfing in all of California then. In an era famous (or perhaps infamous would be a more apt word) for its "beach movies," and for every other rock and roll song on the radio being about a beach, it was very well known indeed. Some of those movies still show up on late-night TV here. I generally avoid them like the plague. I can see how someone would get the impression that Ventura might be a good marketing name here though -- I suppose if they had sold a whole lot of them in Australia we might be calling them "Bondi 66s."

Bondi 66s hey..that cracks me up LOL...sorry i hadn't heard of ventura as a city (i had to look it up hehe), the closest bell it rang to me was that movie Ace Ventura with that guy that imitates Jerry Lewis haha

That I'll trust.

cheers ol mate

 

[FallisPhoto]

LOL yeah i know...it used to drive me nuts yonks back when i was trying to figure out what they really were called! but for anyone else reading this Jsolette is Isolette..some early Isolette have Jsolette on them with a 'J' instead of an 'I' (i have one or two of these somewhere as well) but the J is simply how I is written in script in german and obviously they changed it because (can i say because it was bloody stupid :bang:haha) it doesnt read right in english.

I'm afraid it's worse than that. A capital I, written in cursive script, does look like a printed J, and it looks like it in English as well as in German. I think the people who made that mistake are just plain, as you put it so well, bloody stupid (and let me add, right off the bottom of the scale).

i dont doubt that is your experiance (and probably many others as well) and probably is the reason why some people think the Ventura was a different camera per say. without production numbers which i dont have i couldnt say. but i think it entirely possible that most came as you say. the main point i am trying to get across is that they are the same camera, both were available with different lenses and the ventura was an export name. ...i can say that i have seen Isolette's as imports to Oz and many of them have solinar.

In the USA, during and immediately after WWII, public opinion was pretty rabid. People with ties to Germany were often stoned and were occasionally hanged. Those with ties to Japan were interned in concentration camps and suffered horribly during the war. I don't think we would have sold many Agfas that were not relabled Anscos, even with Solinars. Ansco got into a lot of trouble during and immediately after the war. Ansco was, in effect, seized by the US government at one point when it was found that many photos taken in New York (including some taken by US government agencies) were also turning up in Berlin.

indeed very trying times for the folk of europe, it was inportant to get the german economy/industry up and running again and not to try and reduce them to a farming comunty as they made that mistake after the first war and in a signifancant way led to the second because of that.....

The problem was exacerbated by their government printing more money to "solve" the problem of a collapsing economy. In "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich," I read that the economy eventually got so bad that a bushel basket of money was often required to buy a loaf of bread.

Bondi 66s hey..that cracks me up LOL...sorry i hadn't heard of ventura as a city (i had to look it up hehe), the closest bell it rang to me was that movie Ace Ventura with that guy that imitates Jerry Lewis haha

I thought you'd like that. the guy's name is Jim Carey. I have never seen him in a movie that I thought was the least bit funny.

cheers ol mate

Likewise.

Oh, BTW, do you know anything about the Canon A35 Datelux?