its an interesting discussion Charles. i find all these little things (history of how and where the cameras evolved) and the differences between them almost as great as using them (it certainly adds to fun of using and collecting vintage cameras) and of course we both like pulling them apart and putting them back together lol. however if i can i will point out a few things that until it can be shown to me (and i am happy to be proven wrong--i would rather have the truth of the matter of course) i still beleive that the Ventura is simply an export model (same camera only the name on the front door different and scale in feet) of a Isolette.
I checked again, and I think I'm confusing the Ventura 66 and the Ventura 66 Delux. I was just assuming that the 66 was a low grade 66 Delux (no solinar and a lesser shutter).
an easy mistake; but of course the Ventura 66 is an Iso V and a Ventura 66 delux is an Iso II with the only differnce being the name on the door.
In fact, the Isolette II was a budget version of the Ventura 66 Delux.
Yes, most of the Isolettes, Speedexes and Venturas were all the same cameras, just sold under different names. The Ventura 66 Delux was intended to be the highest end version of the Isolette II
i disagree with this even though it is written on that web page which appears very informative at first glance and from that many other people have repeated it and before we know it everyone thinks it is true. however based on my information (and because i always like to seek out reliable referance from more than one place--just a part of my training from University
or maybe stubon lol)) they are one and the same camera. the Ventura 66 Delux is listed as having been offered with apotar in prontor-s or solinar with compur rapid. obviously we dont have production numbers but it may well be that more where sold with solinar but they were still available with apotar as well. i think it only stands to reason as well..
it is beyond reason that Agfa would build Isolette II that is available with solinar and compur rapid (i have one that is pre 1952) and then build a 'flagship' Ventura 66 deluxe that is meant to be better. in what way was it better, none that i can see. in fact the Ventura was for export. Germans expect quality in their cameras and i can not imagine that they would of settled for camera (an Isolette II) with lesser lens/shutter options and be satisfyed that the best camera (Ventura) was being exported!. the more common pratice was the opposite where an export camera may have been offered not to have the entire range and may miss out on lower end or mid range options.
the Venutra name was agfa export name for the Isolette from 1950 and after the restructuring of the agfa/ansco company again in 1952 where Agfa founded 'Agfa AG for Photofrabrication' (my translation from german text) the section of the company that made film in the provance of
Leverkusen and also 'Agfa camera-works AG' in
Munich . it was at this time of restructuring their company in 1952 agfa decided to drop the venutra name for export (at least in the US to begin with) and give the Ansco and Speedex name a more prominant role obviously for marketing purposes.
, and I believe it was sold mainly in America (and thus was named after Ventura, California).
thats an interesting hypothesis but i am not sure how to prove it. it may just as well of been more likely based on the meaning of the word from Italian/spanish background meaning good fortune. considering that in 1950 the city of Ventura was probably not well known and only had a population of around 16,000 i am not sure how that would of helped with marketing stratergies. and although the US Army PX placed an order with agfa for the camera they were sold elsewhere as well...its doubtfull anyone else knew at the time of a town called Ventura, the name would of been more famous to Italy and Spain i would think (they have famous people with that name)...still you never know there may of been an American from that neck of the woods influencing Agfa with the name! if it was named after an american town (which sorry but i doubt very much) then it didn't hold much appeal to the americans!..the
'speedex' name seemed to have more marketability in the western counties--
As I understand it, the Solinar lens was an option on the Isolette II, but it was standard on the Ventura 66 Delux.
i have information that show the Ventura 66 Delux is listed as having been offered with apotar in prontor-s or solinar with compur rapid, tho it may very well of been offered with more choices at some time (or from a different catologue or source). even if it did, though evidence i can see says that it was offered with apotar,, having less options than an Isolette II doesnt make it a 'better' or 'flagship' camera. it just makes it the flagship camera available with less choice of lenses and shutter than the Iso II, but obviously with the top lens/shutter combnation it still counts as equal to the Iso II but not better!
From my own reference:
"The post-war Agfa Isolette II was introduced at the end of 1952 as a down markert version of the Agfa Ventura 66 DeLuxe. The Ventura 66 Deluxe and Isolette II, which were sold concurrently until the end of 1953, represented a substantial post-war face lift for the original 1938 Isolette. The new features include a redesigned right-handed film advance that now had a rudementary double exposure prevention system and improved shutter/lens combinations.
As the flagship of the Isolette line, the early Venutra 66 Deluxe was fitted with Agfa's top-of-the-line 4 element, coated, Tessar-type, Solinar lens, which was set within a deluxe 9 speed Compur-Rapid shutter assembly. It was Agfa's first post-war foray into the premium folder market. The Ventura 66 Deluxe was a direct competitor of the ultra-compact Voigtlander Perkeo II and the exquisitly well made Zeiss-Ikon Ikonta. The Ventura 66 "Deluxe" was dropped from the Agfa line up with the introduction of the Isolette III in 1954."
it looks like that information is from this page?
http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html
clearly that is a page that everyone whom is interested in Isolette's see's at some point. and while i think it is generaly a very good page but i think it has
many mistakes..particularly with
dates of production/release of the cameras. i tend to think that was the best information he had at the time when he produced the page in 2004 or before?? and possibly based it (maybe in part) on a brochure or two that said the ventura was the 'flagship' of agfa's line up but that sort of thing on its own is misleading. i have seen the odd other pages that obviously copied his words (almost word for word) that dont help and only spead inaccuracy.
i'm certainly not arguing (discussing the point from a different angle) to be difficult but i have collected information from many sources, including Leo Hilkhuijsen who is an expert on agfa and provided information to others (that published books) inluding Mckeowns in 2005-2006 (later than that web pages info dated 2004) and others too...at some point all the other information simply outways that one page and a couple that copied it..
in the end tho all one has to do is look at both cameras, my 1950 Isolette II with solinar and compur-rapid is
exactly (bar the name on the front door) the same as the 1951-52 ventura 66 deluxe--crappy non leather bellows and all- on both--not one detail is better or different between them
