Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
I admit it. I have GAS issues right now horribly.
Tax return is coming. Rangefinder lust is setting in. I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm going to end up buying something because I'll go nuts if I don't.
So let's break this down a little.
What have I used? A couple FSU rangefinders, both of which I liked. Going with a Fed-2 or a Zorki would be by far the cheapest route, but I'd be stuck in two ways. The first is that the camera itself only has frames for a 50mm lens. The second is that it's a screwmount camera. Being a screwmount camera isn't as much of a crux as the one frame thing is, however.
I've also had the Canon rangefinder, a Canon P. I love that thing, and a Canon 7 may be a good way for me to go. It would support the f/0.95 lens if and when I decided to get one without having to resort to retooling the lens itself, plus it would give me the benefit of a meter if I could find one with a working one. However, it is a screwmount.
I could also go with a new Bessa R. Good camera, excellent lens collection there, but once again, screwmount.
An R2M is another good choice. I can't really find much wrong with that one. M mount is what I'd like ideally, but do I really need to go that far? Am I ever going to start using M lenses? I mean, it's likely. But I don't know.
And my final choice: a Leica M2. This is my first choice, but undoubtedly at the end it would be the most expensive choice. It is what I like to call the luxury choice. I don't really need a camera that has Leica stamped on it, yet I do know that it is not only a name. The camera is built well, the viewfinder is the best of all the cameras I could choose, I'd have the widest choice of lenses that will work (same as the R2M), and I'd feel confident that I won't break the thing using it.
I just don't know. Having a baby makes me realize that I need none of this, but that I also want to have a rangefinder to capture the memories. I love my SLR and will never again part with it, but I really can't live without my rangefinder either.
So...answer me this. You have this one chance to buy the camera you really want. This could be your only chance for quite a long time. You're working two jobs to help pay things. You want one more thing before it's no longer about you.
What would you do?
Tax return is coming. Rangefinder lust is setting in. I'm trying to decide what to do. I'm going to end up buying something because I'll go nuts if I don't.
So let's break this down a little.
What have I used? A couple FSU rangefinders, both of which I liked. Going with a Fed-2 or a Zorki would be by far the cheapest route, but I'd be stuck in two ways. The first is that the camera itself only has frames for a 50mm lens. The second is that it's a screwmount camera. Being a screwmount camera isn't as much of a crux as the one frame thing is, however.
I've also had the Canon rangefinder, a Canon P. I love that thing, and a Canon 7 may be a good way for me to go. It would support the f/0.95 lens if and when I decided to get one without having to resort to retooling the lens itself, plus it would give me the benefit of a meter if I could find one with a working one. However, it is a screwmount.
I could also go with a new Bessa R. Good camera, excellent lens collection there, but once again, screwmount.
An R2M is another good choice. I can't really find much wrong with that one. M mount is what I'd like ideally, but do I really need to go that far? Am I ever going to start using M lenses? I mean, it's likely. But I don't know.
And my final choice: a Leica M2. This is my first choice, but undoubtedly at the end it would be the most expensive choice. It is what I like to call the luxury choice. I don't really need a camera that has Leica stamped on it, yet I do know that it is not only a name. The camera is built well, the viewfinder is the best of all the cameras I could choose, I'd have the widest choice of lenses that will work (same as the R2M), and I'd feel confident that I won't break the thing using it.
I just don't know. Having a baby makes me realize that I need none of this, but that I also want to have a rangefinder to capture the memories. I love my SLR and will never again part with it, but I really can't live without my rangefinder either.
So...answer me this. You have this one chance to buy the camera you really want. This could be your only chance for quite a long time. You're working two jobs to help pay things. You want one more thing before it's no longer about you.
What would you do?
sf
Veteran
Yeah, I'm actually preparing to buy something special tonight. I may post a surprise tomorrow.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
So help me? 
Robert Price
I missed what?
GET THE M2 !!!!! You know you want it.
MadMan2k
Well-known
Yeah, get the M2, just tell yourself you can let your kid use it when he/she starts taking pictures. Come on, think of the kids! It's just money!
haha
haha
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Yeah, I do want it, but can I live without it? Heh.
My main problem is that I want to get into M on a budget, which is hard. I'd like to spend less than $500 on a camera body, and that's damn near impossible.
Tough decision.
My main problem is that I want to get into M on a budget, which is hard. I'd like to spend less than $500 on a camera body, and that's damn near impossible.
Tough decision.
visiondr
cyclic iconoclast
Steph,
It all depends on what RF gear you have now. I'm a firm believer in getting what you want (as long as what you want doesn't affect anyone else). After all, you only live once. So, my choice would be the M2. If you can sell off non Leica M usable RF or other superfluous gear, better yet. That way, you will be able to get your camera and feel less GAS Guilt. And next to GAS, GAS Guilt is the worst.
Ron
BTW, babies aren't really that expensive. Don't you dare buy new clothes or any unnecessary baby accessory. There are so many resale shops out there it'll make your head spin. Besides, junior won't give a rip if he/she is wearing some other kids' second-hand duds. Mine never did, and they seem to be turning out to be good little people.
It all depends on what RF gear you have now. I'm a firm believer in getting what you want (as long as what you want doesn't affect anyone else). After all, you only live once. So, my choice would be the M2. If you can sell off non Leica M usable RF or other superfluous gear, better yet. That way, you will be able to get your camera and feel less GAS Guilt. And next to GAS, GAS Guilt is the worst.
Ron
BTW, babies aren't really that expensive. Don't you dare buy new clothes or any unnecessary baby accessory. There are so many resale shops out there it'll make your head spin. Besides, junior won't give a rip if he/she is wearing some other kids' second-hand duds. Mine never did, and they seem to be turning out to be good little people.
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
I'll have a ton of clothing from a friend if I have a boy...I really don't need to worry about that kind of thing unless I want to. Diapers, a changing table, a rocking chair, and formula is really all I'm worried about. Oh, and the house. But it looks like we're going to rent for a bit anyway, so we may not have to worry about putting up a ton of money at one time.
If I do get the M2, it has to go by Adam first and I have to sell anything that I'm not using. I've almost finished doing that, too, except for selling my Canonet 28 and my Yashica MG-1. I also have Metal Gear Solid 2 action figures by Todd McFarlane that ware worth about $150 for the set. My entire collection of Nintendo 64 games is probably worth $150 or so with the console itself due to having Paper Mario plus both of the Zelda games.
It's more me moving in with my boyfriend that has me worried more than being able to afford the baby. I know that we can do that. I'm saving money right now.
I really think that I could swing the M2 without much repercussions. I just have to try to convince Adam of that.
If I do get the M2, it has to go by Adam first and I have to sell anything that I'm not using. I've almost finished doing that, too, except for selling my Canonet 28 and my Yashica MG-1. I also have Metal Gear Solid 2 action figures by Todd McFarlane that ware worth about $150 for the set. My entire collection of Nintendo 64 games is probably worth $150 or so with the console itself due to having Paper Mario plus both of the Zelda games.
It's more me moving in with my boyfriend that has me worried more than being able to afford the baby. I know that we can do that. I'm saving money right now.
I really think that I could swing the M2 without much repercussions. I just have to try to convince Adam of that.
JohnM
Well-known
I must have gotten the wrong kind of baby, because mine was expensive. Actually, she continues to be expensive three years in. You can definitely save some coin on clothes and the like, but the general care, feeding and maintenance of said tot is pricey.
The M2 is a good choice - the only caveat is that you're buying a 50 year old camera and you might have to anticipate a CLA. The Voigtlanders are a good bet as well - cheaper and probably more likely not to need a CLA just yet.
Good luck.
The M2 is a good choice - the only caveat is that you're buying a 50 year old camera and you might have to anticipate a CLA. The Voigtlanders are a good bet as well - cheaper and probably more likely not to need a CLA just yet.
Good luck.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
If you get the M2 - with the exception of lenses - it will be hard to get GAS like that again. It's preventative.
Your next best choice is the Canon P again - but from the sound of it, you won't really be happy (screwmount) until you eventually get the M2. Might as well do it while the repercussions are relatively minor.
(Oh yah - and it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. )
Your next best choice is the Canon P again - but from the sound of it, you won't really be happy (screwmount) until you eventually get the M2. Might as well do it while the repercussions are relatively minor.
(Oh yah - and it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.
)JonathanA
Member
In all reality I don't think you need the Leica. It's an amazing camera but my vote goes for either one of the RxM or RxA series from Voigtlander.
bgb
Well-known
This Old Fools Advice is to buy the Leica .... you never regret the things you do, only the things you wish you had done.
Bingley
Veteran
You've extolled the virtues of the Canon P before, so why not get another one? Prices for a body in decent shape are well south of an M2, and I've observed that a LOT of members of this forum think CV lenses as good, or nearly so, to Leica at a fraction of the price. Not to mention Canon lenses, which appear to be dropping in price. OK, I wear glasses, and the 35 mm framelines are hard to see. But -- as you know -- the P's build quality is not second to a Leica, it is easier to load film, and the shutter is quiet. There will be M2s in the future, and as your fortunes increase, as they will, you can get one then. In the meantime, a good Canon P will cost you less and will give you lots of pleasure photographically. The P is not a lesser camera than the M2.
Steph,
To be honest, if your question truly is,
"You have this one chance to buy the camera you really want. This could be your only chance for quite a long time. You're working two jobs to help pay things. You want one more thing before it's no longer about you."
I over think things like this way too often, make it simple if you can, I know thats not exactly how life works, but still... So, you have a baby on the way, you have a tax return coming, which is important, you have things you need LESS than you need a Leica, games, MacFarlane set etc.. these things are literally toys, albeit collectibles, but, simply, you dont need them, youre going to use a Leica more than any other camera you have now Im sure, youre life is about to change pretty dramatically, and you might not be able to think about yourself for a long time after it does, but, youll have a constant during that time, a camera that you wanted, and probably deserved, A Leica is Leica for a reason, they can be the last cameras you buy, if you take care of them, theyll take care of you. I think its beyond GAS, youre going to have your hands full soon, a kit change might be a good idea, youll have the camera people like me get GAS for you know? So, your GAS will pass easy when you get it, all you have to do is load up a roll of film and know youre putting into a camera youve dreamt of, youre GAS will be reached. Not to mention youll probably want a camera for every single moment and little thing he or she will do, that you can really rely on and breath easy over. I hoped this mightve helped a tiny bit, I tried, I couldve gone on, but Ill cut the rant short, and just say, do it! Youve got a chance to pull it off and get that camera you dream of, take it, youre on this planet for a short amount of time, you might as well make the most of it and have the perfect setup to record whatever comes your way from here on out! I'll one up you and go hit my local pusher when Im back from shooting in FL, he usually has some great Leicas in stock, and it helps that hes a great family friend and very trustworthy, Ill see what he might have, you just gimme the yes or no when you reach that decision! Dont make it a harder one then it has to be!
Ok im done, Ill shutup now!
All the best
Bryan
To be honest, if your question truly is,
"You have this one chance to buy the camera you really want. This could be your only chance for quite a long time. You're working two jobs to help pay things. You want one more thing before it's no longer about you."
I over think things like this way too often, make it simple if you can, I know thats not exactly how life works, but still... So, you have a baby on the way, you have a tax return coming, which is important, you have things you need LESS than you need a Leica, games, MacFarlane set etc.. these things are literally toys, albeit collectibles, but, simply, you dont need them, youre going to use a Leica more than any other camera you have now Im sure, youre life is about to change pretty dramatically, and you might not be able to think about yourself for a long time after it does, but, youll have a constant during that time, a camera that you wanted, and probably deserved, A Leica is Leica for a reason, they can be the last cameras you buy, if you take care of them, theyll take care of you. I think its beyond GAS, youre going to have your hands full soon, a kit change might be a good idea, youll have the camera people like me get GAS for you know? So, your GAS will pass easy when you get it, all you have to do is load up a roll of film and know youre putting into a camera youve dreamt of, youre GAS will be reached. Not to mention youll probably want a camera for every single moment and little thing he or she will do, that you can really rely on and breath easy over. I hoped this mightve helped a tiny bit, I tried, I couldve gone on, but Ill cut the rant short, and just say, do it! Youve got a chance to pull it off and get that camera you dream of, take it, youre on this planet for a short amount of time, you might as well make the most of it and have the perfect setup to record whatever comes your way from here on out! I'll one up you and go hit my local pusher when Im back from shooting in FL, he usually has some great Leicas in stock, and it helps that hes a great family friend and very trustworthy, Ill see what he might have, you just gimme the yes or no when you reach that decision! Dont make it a harder one then it has to be!
Ok im done, Ill shutup now!
All the best
Bryan
sf
Veteran
Stephanie Brim said:So help me?
I'll help you decide!
Buy the camera. With the baby coming, few "toys" could possibly offer you more for the future. In fact, I can't think of anything more important at this time in your life besides the essentials.
Buy the Leica. 25 years from now, you'll be very glad you did, and the relatively small cost of the camera will seem as nothing to you.
disclaimer: don't spend the money if it will bury you. I've seen people buried, and it aint pretty.
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sf
Veteran
JonathanA said:
Ug. Not in my opinion. Those cameras just aren't well built enough to pull into any equation that stretches past a couple years - and that's a simple statistical fact. CVs are the best value around, but a used Leica if you are in that price range financially, (I assume you are buying used?) will serve you far better than a new CV camera, and for only marginally more.
Buy it buy it buy it.
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MelanieC
Well-known
Let me put it this way. If your finances are such that you are worried about scrounging up $100 here and $150 there, you should probably be using what you have and not thinking about buying new gear that you do not need and cannot afford -- completely aside from the fact that you have a baby on the way. You are not only going to have the expenses associated with the baby, but you are also not going to be able to work full time for a while if you're like most of my friends who've had kids. Altogether, things get very costly very fast.
I have been on a limited income for a long time (try being a grad student, and then a researcher in a very expensive city, and see how much money you can put away) and I've made my share of stupid spending mistakes and I regret nearly all of them. There is no gear that is worth putting yourself in big debt over. I would not have the cameras I have today if I hadn't inherited them or been able to use an equipment budget to buy them (in the case of the dSLR) -- there is no way I would even consider buying them, I cannot afford this kind of equipment. I may seem lucky in this respect, so what do I know, right? -- but there are plenty of other things that I want or think I need to fulfill one desire or hobby or another that I recognize I cannot afford even though I really really want them (I haven't been on a horse for over five years, for example, and I used to be very into dressage, but it's just too expensive). There comes a time when you have to recognize your financial limitations and make choices, and having a baby on the way seems like as good a time as any for that. I don't want to sound harsh, but you already have some pretty nice cameras. I think it would make more sense to use what you have and save money for your baby and your future.
I have been on a limited income for a long time (try being a grad student, and then a researcher in a very expensive city, and see how much money you can put away) and I've made my share of stupid spending mistakes and I regret nearly all of them. There is no gear that is worth putting yourself in big debt over. I would not have the cameras I have today if I hadn't inherited them or been able to use an equipment budget to buy them (in the case of the dSLR) -- there is no way I would even consider buying them, I cannot afford this kind of equipment. I may seem lucky in this respect, so what do I know, right? -- but there are plenty of other things that I want or think I need to fulfill one desire or hobby or another that I recognize I cannot afford even though I really really want them (I haven't been on a horse for over five years, for example, and I used to be very into dressage, but it's just too expensive). There comes a time when you have to recognize your financial limitations and make choices, and having a baby on the way seems like as good a time as any for that. I don't want to sound harsh, but you already have some pretty nice cameras. I think it would make more sense to use what you have and save money for your baby and your future.
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W
wlewisiii
Guest
I guess I'm in the "Leica is just another word for getting ripped off" camp. They have made some very good cameras. They have also used very good propaganda to make many think there is no other RF than thiers. There are many other options that are as good and, arguably, better. Even now.
Now, I'll give a bit of advice. You don't need a digicrap to keep up with your child. I have many 6x6 _snapshots_ of my son taken with a Yashica Mat and I am still willing to use a TLR (Ikoflex these days ) off the cuff. Just remember that many cameras can be used handheld if you remember the words "hyperfocal distance".
Think carefully. There is very great world of difference between what you want and what you need. It took much pain for me to learn the difference; I'd prefer you didn't go through the same process. Get something that will do what you _need_ it to do. That will serve you much better over the long term. Especially once your child is old enough to run - you won't even think about shooting most days. You will be too g*dda*ned tired to even consider it. Been there, done that, still have the unexposed film from that era... :bang:
William
Now, I'll give a bit of advice. You don't need a digicrap to keep up with your child. I have many 6x6 _snapshots_ of my son taken with a Yashica Mat and I am still willing to use a TLR (Ikoflex these days
) off the cuff. Just remember that many cameras can be used handheld if you remember the words "hyperfocal distance". Think carefully. There is very great world of difference between what you want and what you need. It took much pain for me to learn the difference; I'd prefer you didn't go through the same process. Get something that will do what you _need_ it to do. That will serve you much better over the long term. Especially once your child is old enough to run - you won't even think about shooting most days. You will be too g*dda*ned tired to even consider it. Been there, done that, still have the unexposed film from that era... :bang:
William
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Steph,
Go to Keh.com, get the Fuji G690 BL in bargain condition for $265, add the 100mm lens for $69 and, voilà, you will live happily everafter with a superb rangefinder camera and its gorgeous 6x9 negatives. When your finances will allow, you should be able to add more lenses to the family.
Cheers,
Abbazz
Go to Keh.com, get the Fuji G690 BL in bargain condition for $265, add the 100mm lens for $69 and, voilà, you will live happily everafter with a superb rangefinder camera and its gorgeous 6x9 negatives. When your finances will allow, you should be able to add more lenses to the family.
Cheers,
Abbazz
sf
Veteran
MelanieC said:
I don't know what cameras you already work with, Stephanie, but if you don't like shooting with them enough that you'll be able to record the next years well...if you maybe only own an Argus "brick" and an Iskra, you might want to invest in a good camera that you'll love to have in your hands all the time. Of course I would say Leica because you want something that handles fast glass, will last a long time, and makes the fingers happy.
Of course, if buying one means that your credit will suck hard enough that you'll be unable to obtain other more vital things in your coming years, you'll certainly do well to reconsider...