byronfry
Member
I am so damned puzzled by this decision. Here are my choices: A Mamiya 7 with 80mm for $950 CAN or a GSW690 for $800 CAN once I have imported into Canada. The Fuji is from KEH, in bargain condition, the Mamiya is in slightly ruff condtion (viewfinder cup missing with many miles on it). I am really looking for a wide-angle street photography camera and wondering which will work best. My thoughts are the Fuji, though cheaper won't hold its value as well. It does have the wide angle to start with, which is good, but is also quite large from what I understand. The Mamiya I hear is a much better camera, smaller and with a meter, but it comes with a lens focal length Im not super into because I use a Rollei TLR for that range.
Any ideas? My biggest issues are that Mamiyas are usually ruled out for being so much more expensive, but in this case it isn't so I am wondering if I should just go for what is considered the better camera?
Any ideas? My biggest issues are that Mamiyas are usually ruled out for being so much more expensive, but in this case it isn't so I am wondering if I should just go for what is considered the better camera?
didjiman
Richard Man
Street shooter? Then may be a RF645 would be more suited? Mamiya 7 takes too long to reload and change lens. No experience with the GSW though
Gary E
Well-known
I've shot with the GW670iii and Mamiya 6MF, and the only difference to me was the fact I could switch from 75mm to 50mm on the Mamiya. Both have leave shutters which allow for lower shutter speeds than with SLRs. I can tell you that the Fuji has a recommended service life of their leaf shutter at 5000 actuations (in the 670's case that is 500 rolls of film with 10 6x7 per roll in 120). I don't know if they still service the camera as I haven't reached the limit yet. I enjoy the camera for it's simplicity.
The Mamiya 7 has several lenses you can choose from if the 80mm isn't your choice for street photography, and though their wides are some of the best in MF they are also not cheap (especially if purchased new). The grip is better to hold, and the shutter release is much more subtle than the one on the Fuji.
Owning both, I wouldn't want to be without the other, but if I really had to choose to keep only one I would keep my Mamiya 6. :angel:
The Mamiya 7 has several lenses you can choose from if the 80mm isn't your choice for street photography, and though their wides are some of the best in MF they are also not cheap (especially if purchased new). The grip is better to hold, and the shutter release is much more subtle than the one on the Fuji.
Owning both, I wouldn't want to be without the other, but if I really had to choose to keep only one I would keep my Mamiya 6. :angel:
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Turtle
Veteran
mamiya is smaller, lighter, quieter, metered, has changeable lenses etc. If you only ever want the 65mm FL, the fuji makes some sense but I don't see much.
PS, and FWIW, I think that 120 is seriously outgunned for street work by the puny 35mm format. I shoot 120RF and 35mmRF and this is painfully obvious to me. It comes down to DOF and the ability to effectively zone focus and catch fast action, shoot in low light etc. You need two more stops on a 65mm rather than a 35mm on a 35mm camera for the same DOF, which means that if using 400 speed on the smaller camera you now need 1600 on the 120 camera etc. I Find the Mamiya 7 great for more deliberate street 'scene' work but no use for really quick fluid work. also far too many film changes.... More power to you if you have found a way round these issues.
PS, and FWIW, I think that 120 is seriously outgunned for street work by the puny 35mm format. I shoot 120RF and 35mmRF and this is painfully obvious to me. It comes down to DOF and the ability to effectively zone focus and catch fast action, shoot in low light etc. You need two more stops on a 65mm rather than a 35mm on a 35mm camera for the same DOF, which means that if using 400 speed on the smaller camera you now need 1600 on the 120 camera etc. I Find the Mamiya 7 great for more deliberate street 'scene' work but no use for really quick fluid work. also far too many film changes.... More power to you if you have found a way round these issues.
nksyoon
Well-known
I'd like to emphasize the quietness factor if this matters to you - the Mamiya is quieter than a film Leica M, the Fuji is very loud, louder than many 35mm SLRs.
W
Way
Guest
I think the main points to ponder are: Do you want 6x7 or 6x9? Interchangeable lenses or fixed? Built in metering or all manual? Will the shutter sound matter to you? Does camera size matter? (The Fuji has a noisey film advance and the shutter is loud. It's also BIG!)
Both cameras have very sharp lenses. Both cameras will produce great images. Mamiya 7 has more flexibilty with its lenses, metered, quieter. The Fuji has that big 6x9 negative and to some that may be all they need.
Both cameras have very sharp lenses. Both cameras will produce great images. Mamiya 7 has more flexibilty with its lenses, metered, quieter. The Fuji has that big 6x9 negative and to some that may be all they need.
newsgrunt
Well-known
Also, what do you consider wide ? I'd find the GSW to be on the not so wide side of things. Having said that, I use a Mamiya 7II and the 43 is pretty well glued to the camera. Too wide for some but then I like the 21 on my MP.
If this is the Mamiya and lens I think you're talking about, might be worth a drive or meet halfway.
If this is the Mamiya and lens I think you're talking about, might be worth a drive or meet halfway.
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Benjamin
Registered Snoozer
Well the Fuji is 6x9 and the Mamiya is 6x7. Which format do you prefer? Pretty simple decision, really.
It is a shame though, that Mamiya didn't make a Mamiya 9.
It is a shame though, that Mamiya didn't make a Mamiya 9.
benlees
Well-known
I just went through this. I ended up selling my Fuji GW690II and keeping the M7. I loved the Fuji, mainly because it is such a beast. The 6x9 negs were great but the difference from the 6x7 was not as big as I thought it would be. The Mamiya is much more ergonomic and a real pleasure to use. Very light and really feels good in the hand. Having AEL is real bonus as well. I use the 80mm, and although I don't have plans to get any other lens I like the idea I could get different focal lengths if I chose.
kuzano
Veteran
Mamiya DID make a 9.....
Mamiya DID make a 9.....
The Mamiya Press Universal and older press models came with a variety of backs... 6X4.5, 6X6, 6X7, 6X9, (In FACT, you could get three of those choices in a multi-format back and change formats mid-roll) and Polaroid pack film, cut sheet backs up to 2X3, Ground Glass Viewing, Perspective control via bellows on the Super 23 and other back options. In addition the Press series offered an exceptional rangefinder, and a wide array of lenses from 50MM to 250MM. Included was a 100 f2.8 Planar design that "kicked butt" on other professional models.
The Universal offered options to match any other mfr and was a full blown "System" camera. The 6 and 7 camera's were a retrograde step for Mamiya, dictated by a wimp consumer crowd that didn't eat their Wheaties and therefore could not pack around the Press Universal system, or even the base camera and lens combo without a lot of whining.... OOOOOOH, it's tooo heavy!!
And compared to the Mamiya 7, at least the Fuji requires some muscle to haul around. My system choice is the Mamiya Universal, and my fixed lens choice is the Fuji... GSW690III and GW690III. And if I wanted one body and two lenses at 65MM and 100MM, I'd get the G690bl and interchangable lenses. It's a bit heavier than the II and III series fixed lens models, but the plus there is a camera that I can press the shutter on and get no shake because of the static inertia of the fairly heavy body.
They still make film for the 110 cameras, and when I wake up feeling particularly puny some morning, I grab my Pentax Auto110 and three lenses. Throw them in one pocket and go out shooting. And of course, there is my Olympus Pen Ft
!!!!!!
Mamiya DID make a 9.....
The Mamiya Press Universal and older press models came with a variety of backs... 6X4.5, 6X6, 6X7, 6X9, (In FACT, you could get three of those choices in a multi-format back and change formats mid-roll) and Polaroid pack film, cut sheet backs up to 2X3, Ground Glass Viewing, Perspective control via bellows on the Super 23 and other back options. In addition the Press series offered an exceptional rangefinder, and a wide array of lenses from 50MM to 250MM. Included was a 100 f2.8 Planar design that "kicked butt" on other professional models.
The Universal offered options to match any other mfr and was a full blown "System" camera. The 6 and 7 camera's were a retrograde step for Mamiya, dictated by a wimp consumer crowd that didn't eat their Wheaties and therefore could not pack around the Press Universal system, or even the base camera and lens combo without a lot of whining.... OOOOOOH, it's tooo heavy!!
And compared to the Mamiya 7, at least the Fuji requires some muscle to haul around. My system choice is the Mamiya Universal, and my fixed lens choice is the Fuji... GSW690III and GW690III. And if I wanted one body and two lenses at 65MM and 100MM, I'd get the G690bl and interchangable lenses. It's a bit heavier than the II and III series fixed lens models, but the plus there is a camera that I can press the shutter on and get no shake because of the static inertia of the fairly heavy body.
They still make film for the 110 cameras, and when I wake up feeling particularly puny some morning, I grab my Pentax Auto110 and three lenses. Throw them in one pocket and go out shooting. And of course, there is my Olympus Pen Ft
!!!!!!
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kuzano
Veteran
Shop around. I have purchased a GW 690III for $800 LNIB (like new in box) with under 1000 shutter count. These are still serviced by Fuji and CameraWiz. I also later (two years ago) bought a low count GSW690II, also like new in box, for $900.
I like the 6X9 format for one very good reason. I can take two or more overlapped shots and stitch them together for 6X17, or three for 6X24, very easily and undetectable. Otherwise, I'd be spending $3000 to $4000 for a 6X17 setup. Big Panorama negatives for under $1000.
I would never settle for bargain or rough on these cameras. Too many on the market. Watch eBay for high feedback 100% sellers. I do. And I am one.
The reason the price is so high for a rough M7 is that they are and always have been overpriced. Eventually, that's going to catch up with them and values will fall. Fuji's seem to have bottomed out about a year ago and clean ones are actually rising in price as MF is being revisited and visited by newbys.
I don't think your decision is as bad as it seems, as I wouldn't consider either of your "finds".
One user to check repeatedly on eBay for the big Fuji's is a user named fotofila.
Additionally, there is a GW690III with low count shutter (053 for 530 actuations) on eBay from a 200 feedback 100% seller. The Buu It Now is under $700. There is no duty on camera's or optics passing from US to Canada as I have been told. However shipping is around $40.
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aizan
Veteran
used fuji gf670s are coming up on ebay for a little more than $1700usd. i'd save up longer, or buy a bronica rf645.
sebastian toombs
Member
i also noticed that 'rough' mamiya 7 on c-list toronto. i would go for a mamiya 7, but probably not that one. you could get something in better condition on ebay for around the same price... or even in a store: i snagged my mamiya 7 with 80mm for $1k in like new condition at leo's in vancouver, about 18 months ago...
Turtle
Veteran
A Mamiya 8 would have been perfect. 9 shots per roll (so three images bracketed neatly if shooting trannie), a format already in use my Mamiya and probably the most popular aspect ratio in photography with only a marginally wider camera. With the ergonomics of the RF645 it would have been unbelievable; however, I cant really complain about the mamiya 7 apart from the flimsy feeling exposure compensation dial and lack of auto curtain for lens changes.