Any Canon shooters using an M?

[markbrennan]

Hey everyone -

I haven't been around in a while; and I haven't forgotten all the great support I got from this community when I decided to purchase my first rangefinder, a Canon P.

As much as I love my P, i've been wondering if I might get a Leica. I love the way my P feels and handles, but have had issues w/ haze, flare and focusing. I can't help but think the Leica finder might be better. And, as good as Canon LTM lenses are, I think my taste runs towards crisper, contrastier glass, so I'm wondering if newer Leica glass might be better for my sense of aesthetics (not that I don't love the low contrast B&W work of HCB and others).

Any Canon RF user here also shoot w/ an M?

My thought is that the M3 would be natural. I enjoy shooting w/out an onboard meter. I also remember loving the M3 50mm framelines (I only shoot 50). On the other hand, I've heard that the MP finder is bright and contasty, so I might consider that - though the price, even used, is rather prohibitive. I would probably look towards getting a 50 'cron, a later model.

I'll probably bring my P into one of NYC's Leica dealers and look through a bunc of different finders.

I wanted to solicit feedback from the Canon RF community before going to the Leica forum.

Any thoughts, however subjective, are appreciated!
regards,
-Mark

 

[FrankS]

Hi Mark,
If you haven't been here for a while, wait until you hear Joe's story!

If you are only shooting a 50mm lens then an M3 is perfect. If you want contrastier results, then nothing beats the latest Summicrons, although the difference between the last few incarnations is very small. A cron from 1969 to the present would suit.

Welcome back.

 

[pshinkaw]

I use a Canon 7 and an M-2. I prefer the M2, but I use the Canon in bright sunlight in case I forget and point it at the sun. I once burned a hole in a Zorki-4 shutter curtain, and don't really wan to do that again. Obviously the M-lenses don't fit on the Canon, but I only own one genuine M lens. The rest are LTM with adapters.

-Paul

 

[Kyle]

I'd pass on the MP. Get a solid M3, and then use the money for glass. The M3 is beautiful, and its a great camera for using a 50.

 

[harry01562]

I believe there are a number of us who use M's and also Canon's. I use an M3 and a couple of Barnacks, but I collect/use Cqnon primarily. I do like the finder on the Canon 7s better than those on several other models. Frankly, none are quite as good as a nice M3. Darn, that was difficult to say. I have a late 1965 model, and it makes a fine shooter.
If you feel you want to make the change, you won't really be satisfied until you do. You also probably won't lose much or any cash, if you decide to sell the Leica later. If you like the look of the Summicron, it will also work fine on the Canon, if you opt for LTM. Having the ability to mix/match/switch between these magnificent machines is lots of fun, as others will probably attest.
Advice won't be conclusive, go out and shoot.

Harry

 

[back alley]

if you want the best finder available then you need the new zeiss ikon.
that thing is big and bright. the more i use the camera the more i like it.
even my friends who are not into photography but may have a p&s or a digital have made comments on it.

in an older camera, the m3 is very nice, no doubt.
you might want to get your p vf cleaned also and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Mackinaw]

I own several Canon rangefinders (L1, 7s, 7, III-A), a Leica M3 and a "new" (15 month) MP. No doubt the camera I love the best and use the most is the MP. There's just something about that incredibly bright and contrasty viewfinder and smooth film advance that puts this camera head and shoulders above the rest. Plus I love the option of using M mount lenses or older screwmounts on the MP, or M3, which is something I can't do with the Canons.

That being said, I just put a roll of Tmax 100 through my Canon 7 which I'll be processing once I finish with this note. The MP is my favorite, but I still love to use the old Canons, on occasion, when the mood strikes.

Jim Bielecki

 

[rover]

M3, M6 coexisting well with a Canon IV SB2 and now VT. I love classic glass, especially 50s. Canon, Leitz, Leica, Nikkor, Zeiss, FSU stuff, it all gets along fine at my house.

 

[markbrennan]

Thanks everyone for all the great responses! Frank, thanks for the welcome back. I agree, I believe the M3 and 50 'cron could be a great combo for me.; and I agree w/ Harry that going out to shoot beats any advice. Joe, interesting to hear you going to the Zeiss Ikon; I had not really looked into that and know virtually nothing about it.

Kyle, my instincts also are to go for the M3 rather than the much more expensive MP. Although Jim, I'd be interested to know how you find the difference between the 2 finders, for 50mm frame lines. Is your MP finder 72% or 85%? My concern is the 50mm lines on the MP will simply be too small. Being used to the 100% Canon P finder I suspect I won't like a 72% finder.

Joe, I agree a cleaning might help my P finder, but my understanding is that the optics in the M rangefinder mechanism is different, and supposedly superior, to the RF mechanism in the Canon P. Not sure I understand how that would translate into the "user experience", but it's what I've heard.

Although I've often heard that the M3 finder is wonderful, my concern with it, like w/ the P, is the age of these cameras; since a bright, contrasty finder is such an obsession of mine, I wonder if I'm getter off going w/ the MP? They command a premium, though and I don't think I need the onboard meter.

Thanks again for all the feedback!
best,
-Mark

 

[back alley]

mark, do some reading on it. the m3 finder is different from the other m finders also. the zi finder is closer to the m3.
the p finder is simpler and so less to go wrong also.
the p that i sold to kyle has a brilliant finder in it and i wonder if most would benefit from an expert cleaning.

joe

 

[back alley]

mp vs m3

a good start

 

[ray_g]

Mark, if you only shoot 50mm, I would go for an M3. True, it is an old body, so try to find one that has recently been CLA'd (or have one CLA'd), and it should be good for a long time. Look out for delamination of the finder, too.

As Frank said, the summicrons are great. You may also like the new 50/2.8 elmar. I have no first hand experience with the elmar, but there are many happy users here.

 

[back alley]

i'm looking forward to my 50 summicron.

 

[Mackinaw]

Mark,

My MP has the 0.72 finder. I also have the 1.25 magnifier which turns the 0.72 into a 0.90 finder, which is about the same as the M3.

Your comments about the M3 finders showing their age is a good one. The rangefinder spot of my M3 is, unfortunately, getting faint and will need to be fixed soon. I'm debating whether to have a 0.85 MP viewfinder installed or have the M3 viewfinder reconditioned (there's a camera repair shop in England that re-habs M3 viewfinders).

Hope this helps.

Jim Bielecki

 

[Rich Silfver]

Definetively get an M3 and a 50/2 Summicron - it's a wonderful combination.

I have a Canon VT-deluxe and that - just like your P - developed severe finder issues (rangefinder patch basically gone). Also keep in mind that the P was introduced a a lower-priced alternative at the time where most of the cost saving was in the simplified viewfinder.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'm not sure how much my experiance will help, but here it is, nonetheless.

I have a Canon 7 and a Leica CL. I have used an M3 in the past. Of all of these, I'll take the 7's VF as, by far, the best. The finder lins are clear, they are labeled, and the rf patch has excellent contrast.

The key is what you see and what your camera sees. There isn't any camera that has ever existed that wasn't better than the humans who took pictures with it. For me, it's easier to use the Canon to get decent family shots to share with his grandparents. So life goes...

William

 

[rover]

Where are you mark? If you can I think you should get an M3 in your hands to see if it is what you imagine. I suspect you won't want to put it down, but it seems you need to make that decision yourself. If you are in a Leica shop you may be able to handle an M3 and MP at the same time.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Both of my M3 finders CLA'd to perfection at Essex in New Jersey. The finders are superb.

The Canon 7 finder is better than my Canon VI-T and V-T. But I find the higher mag and better defined spot on the M3 has the edge.

 

[Mackinaw]

Excellent point Brian. One of the things that makes the M series viewfinder so good is the well defined rangefinder rectangle. I used my Canon 7 this past weekend and found focusing to be harder than expected due to the 7's "mushy" rangefinder spot. It may sound like a small point, but in dim ligt conditons, the well-defined, sharp edged rangefinder spot of the M makes focusing easier.

I fear my M3's viewfinder is beyond the cleaning stage. DAG warned me a few years back that the deterioration was bad enough that it couldn't be brought up to factory specs.

Jim Bielecki

 

[taffer]

Canon user (7 and P later) since a couple years ago, M2 since last month. Once you get used to the M patch and its perfectly defined borders, you get sort of dissappointed when finding the blurry one on a 7 or P.

There's no reason not to try and enjoy them all if you're lucky to find good enough bargains.

@Jim, I've read that CRR Luton in UK does mirror resilvering...