Are TLR's rangefinders?

[DougK]

Funny this thread should come up now, I just brought my Lubitel with me to work yesterday to play with on my lunch break, wound up shooting a roll at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

TLRs in general are lots of fun to shoot with. The square format (unless your model comes with a 6x4.5 mask) provides a nice change of pace in composition; at least you never have to rotate the camera. They are slower to operate until you get used to the left-right reversal. It can also be a bit tricky to keep your horizon level. Since neither of my TLRs have a built-in meter, that requires I drag along a separate meter although I'm starting to trust my exposure guesstimation skills much more than I used to.

Overall, a great way to get back to the basics and produce top-quality images at a bargain basement price.

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

You may find this site interesting on TLR'S:

http://www.tlr-cameras.com/index.htm

Wayne

 

[RubenBlaedel]

the rolliecord does not mention reflex 🙂 - actually when you engage the sportsfinder you still have a partiel view of mat screen and what comes thru the viewing lens and as such the rolleiflex is a rangefinder !!
For those who have not tried a TLR - the old rolleiflexes from the mid 50ties called automats with 3,5 75 mm tessars or xenars - no lightmeter - are lovely quit cameras that is a pleasure to use. I have started bying these when ever i find one cheap and they are very nice to work with and the angle of view makes pictures different from other cameras used at eye level. An automat is about 800 grammes - how much is a Leica M2 with a summicron?Because you take nice pictures with a rolliflex and because we would not opening up for a lot of moderne slr digital gear thing we should be able to let the RLR in the backdoor to our exscusive forum

 

[FrankS]

I agree that TLR's be given special honorary rangefinder status here at RFF. They are as much classic anti-SLR as actual rangefinder cameras are. Their spirit is pure and true.

 

[DougK]

Well said Frank 🙂

 

[Honu-Hugger]

Honorary rangefinder status? Why, because they are considered a classic? This is the "Rangefinder Forum" not the classic camera or anything else we think is cool or take a liking to forum. There is absolutely nothing about a TLR that even remotely qualifies it as a rangefinder. However, there are a couple of active Rollei lists that are always welcoming new members.

 

[wlewisiii]

Honorary in the sense that even though we do try to hew fairly close to the RF line, an occasional mention of TLR's (or even SLR's) doesn't devolve the way it would at certain other photo net sites... 😀 Yeah there are other, very good, places to get lots of info. But for a quick question about most classics, I know I'd be tempted to ask a basic question here first simply because someone like you would be able to answer it.

And for that I am extremly grateful.

William

 

[RubenBlaedel]

in defence of the TRLs

in defence of the TRLs

Call for a Poll to the defence of TLRs being Rangefinders

First there is a huge difference between the super good and nice friendly atmosphere on rangfinderforum and on the rollei lists - the rolleilists have some very nice and help full members but they tend to explode into almost devastating discussion causing massive un-subscriptions tears and agony.

I think Frank is more then right - and I think that a TLR is closer to a rangefinder than it is to a SLR

I am positive that you will find that many members of this list that have both "real" rangefinders and a TLR in the bag BECAUSE the provide the same cool - nice - photographic silent pleasurable performance - they are not expensive and the are truly classic cameras

I have several small nice rangefinder distance meters to put into the accessories shoe - I will stick that to my rollei because nothing says anything about the rangefinder has to be coupled and I would suggest anyone else to do the same if we cant talk TLRs or show images from TLRs on this forum

This is not an attempt to dilute the rangefinderforum but to ad a scent or spice of something truly nice.

I have never met and asshole with a rollieflex around her or his neck but I have run into a few arrogant SOBs with Leicas.

I think the TLR truly is a rangefinder in its heart that just can not help that the rangfinderfinders mirror accidently shows an image worthwhile looking at and not just a small flimsy double image to adjust focus

So lets not rule TLRs out - my Leica M2,M3 and M6 along with my Lynx 14 E and Electro G, my Linhof Super Technika, my Contessa, my Vitessa and my Super Ikonta all tells my the the TLRs are a dear relative that they would be most sadden to see excluded from this fine forum.

Cheers and have a nice weekend - Ruben

 

[Honu-Hugger]

Why the large type, Ruben? "Special honorary rangefinder status" is what I was addressing; not that the discussion of Rolleis, or any other camera for that matter, be excluded from the list. Your assertion that a TLR is closer to a RF than a SLR is ridiculous and all the more so when shouted out in huge type. A TLR is what it is -- a "twin lens reflex." Put a rangefinder on anything you want -- so far there isn't a lot of active policing going on here; we don't really care what people shoot with or talk about -- any discussion of cameras, classic or otherwise, always seems to be welcomed.

So let's not give TLR "special honorary rangefinder status" -- my Contax I, II, IIa along with my Alpa 5, 6b, 7, 9d, 10d, 11el, my Rollieflex SL66, my Rollei 35SE, and my Super Ikonta (what is this, Ruben -- "Show and Tell?"😀) all tell me that TLR are related to RF and SLR both and only in the sense that they are film cameras, period. Apparently, our cameras seem to be in disagreement😉.

Have a nice weekend as well, and thank you for the kind sentiments.

 

[RUBENatHOME]

Why the large type, Ruben? ".

I pasted the text from my word editor in order to catch most spelling errrors ! The large types did not show up on my screen - they were not there intentionally ?? Apparently I forgot to put in a half dozen smileys in order not to be taken to littrary. The rangefinders agreeing with me that they felt very much related and comfortabel in the bag together with a TLR was no "show and tell"!
In short I get in the same state of mind when I shoot with a TLR as I do when I use a Rangefinder - this is not the case when I use a SLR !
Hope that clears things 🙂 cheers Ruben

 

[Honu-Hugger]

(snip)...In short I get in the same state of mind when I shoot with a TLR as I do when I use a Rangefinder - this is not the case when I use a SLR !
Hope that clears things 🙂 cheers Ruben

I sense an opportunity to move this to a discussion of how certain cameras feel when we use them, a sense of their "spirit" in some form. I know what you mean by the state of mind; I also used to shoot with a Rollei TLR (I don't remember which model, but a camera I had great respect for). This "feeling" or "state of mind" we experience may have to do with many factors; I've never really thought of it in this way before but it is now apparent to me that I've settled in on Alpa as my only SLR because I also experience a "rangefinder" feel when I use these cameras. It probably has to do with size, the way they are constructed, and maybe that the ergonomics are a little peculiar -- all traits also shared by the Rollei. I also recall some discussion once about the importance of the veiwing position when you use a Rollei; some of the older Alpa models also share this trait (on the Alpa a 45 degree veiwfinder angle causes you to tilt into the camera and bow a little, much like the Rollei). At any rate, state of mind ranks very high on my list when I choose a camera to use -- how about with others on the list?

 

[Doug]

"State of mind"... Hmmm... What I've most noticed is that the smaller the film format of the camera I'm using, the less care I seem to take with the pictures. There's been a loaded Pentax Auto 110 on the shelf behind me, and every time I contemplate taking it out to shoot, I wonder, "what's the use?"... the film is too tiny to take seriously. I feel the same way, but less so, with a half-frame 35. "Double-frame" or standard 35 gets more respect, but sometimes I wonder why I bother with that too, given several roll-film rigs that produce big luscious negs.

You'd think I might be a bit nervous about where this size progression might logically lead, but there's a limit to the bulk I want to carry! Still, a buddy just got one of those mostly-plastic Toyo field cameras, and it's light as a feather... 😀

 

[Honu-Hugger]

I hear you, Doug. But I really think there is a barrier of sorts before crossing into LF; even a MF is still a "portable" camera. One thing I was alluding to was the tactile sense: Rolleis, Leicas, and any of the other "golden age" cameras have such an overwhelming feel of quality to them that I believe this contributes something to the unconcscious follow through in composure and picture execution -- with Rolleis there is the crank wind and shutter release position (it's a "two-step," sort of like a Waltz). But then on the other hand this assertion could be full of crap😀

As for 110 cameras: I used to own a very nice one and I have to admit that even as nice as it was I don't think I ever got out of the "point and shot" mentality with it. And now that I give this more thought, you've brought up an interesting point: it does seem as though if I'm behind a 6x6 I take more time with composure. Unless I'm involved in a 35mm circumstance that by nature requires additional time (micro/macro stuff) I do tend to rush 35 a little more.

Truth is I'm scared to death of LF -- I'm all too sure that I would like it and being as OC as I am it would only lead to another couple of years on eBay acquiring every little bit and piece imaginable😀😀😀

 

[davidcreede]

they are certainly more of a rangefinder than a Bessa L. And if equipped with a splitimage rangefinder on the ground glass they do find the range

 

[Honu-Hugger]

they are certainly more of a rangefinder than a Bessa L. And if equipped with a splitimage rangefinder on the ground glass they do find the range

SLR's find the range, too -- but they are not rangefinders. We're not going back down this road, are we?😀

I think the fact that they have been referred to as "Twin Lens Reflexes" for many, many years pretty much determines their appropriate category -- unless of course we grant them "honorary rangefinder status" and therefore embark upon some cutting edge in new-age camera nomenclature (but for what reason would be completely lost on me).

 

[Honu-Hugger]

(snip)...standard 35 gets more respect, but sometimes I wonder why I bother with that too, given several roll-film rigs that produce big luscious negs...(snip)😀

This is certainly "old news" with most and almost a cliche`, but is there anything (LF excluded) more tasty than a 6x6 Velvia slide just back from processing, set upon the light table?

 

[Honu-Hugger]

I agree that TLR's be given special honorary rangefinder status here at RFF. They are as much classic anti-SLR as actual rangefinder cameras are. Their spirit is pure and true.

And by deductive reasoning are we to assume that the spirit of SLR's are not "pure and true?" Did I miss something -- are SLR's "bad" and non-SLR's "good?" Did the Devil somehow slip in here, unnoticed by me and perhaps others and somehow subjugate SLR's and strip them of their "pure and true" spirit?😀 When did SLR's become our enemy? If your SLR experience has been too disappinting then perhaps you've been using the wrong SLR? I vote "NO" for TLR's as honorary RF status and "Yes" for peaceful coexistence among SLR's ("peace with honor," Richard M. Nixon).

 

[thpook]

I've been reading about people hand holding these at 1/15 and kneel holding 1/8 (resting it on one knee).

Anyone played with anything like a Rollei Expression 2.8 GX?

Daniel.

I have a Rollei Expression 2.8 GX, and it is an awesome camera. It has a fast Planar, some slight parallax correction (the focussing screen moves a little when you focus). The quality of the lens is the same as the Carl Zeiss 80mm CFE for the Hasselblad system.

I like shooting with my rollei for the same reason I like using my Leica. It's quiet, there's no viewfinder blackout. You are "limited" to a shutter speed of 1/500 because it is a leaf shutter, but you also get flash sync at all speeds. It does have a built-in meter, but I rarely use it so I have no idea how accurate it is.

 

[snaggs]

I think this last post is the definative answer. Lets not hijack the thread with debates. This is the rangefinder forum, and I now know the TLR is not a rangefinder (I thought it might be when I first posted), so I guess users will have to wait for a TLR forum for a specific place. Otherwise, www.apug.org is a great place, and I've had some great responses in the Medium Format forum on the TLR. I suggest interested TLR users post there.

I know that a TLR is right up on my list now after the Rollei 35RF. They both share the same traits and strengths, but one with a 6x6 negative!

Daniel.

 

[Honu-Hugger]

Daniel,
I wouldn't refrain from discussing anything camera related here if you feel it is appropriate. Although the list evolves and as it grows the powers to be may have to act in accordance. So far we seem to do well keeping our focus on rangefinders while freely discussing all things photo-related, and even occasionally a few things that are not. Note, for example, how this forum has managed to bring Coffee and Cameras together😀

Cheers!