Are we Leica users kidding ourselves??

I would love to own a Leica film camera - not the M8, that you can keep. I can also afford on if I wanted. However, imo, the difference in quality simply - to me, doesn't justify the price differential over a Japanese FLRF I can readily get for around $100. I know that that might be sacrilege in some circles... I view these cameras as the "Lexus" (not the Chevy) of the camera world. What I mean by that is, just like the Japanese swooped down in the 80's and ate the German luxury car manufacturers lunch by producing a luxury car that rivaled the German top of the line autos, and created a competing car that due to price was a far better value proposition... A decade or two prior, the Japanese did this with cameras - specifically rangefinders. It's especially true now on the used market...

A Konica Auto S3 that came out in the 70's is an example of this. A Konica Auto S3 has an outstanding lens, fits in the palm of your hand, a nearly silent shutter, and a bright rangefinder. Mine cost -and I got a decent deal, $100 CLA'd (seller's starting bid was $100 - he wanted to get his money back for the CLA, obviously... no other bidders...) Granted, it's not an interchangable lens "system" camera and it's shutter priority. To me - again, sacrilege, SLRs are better designs that RFs for interchangable lenses except for wides, and I'm not a "wide" shooter, only sometimes, I'll live with the quality differential there since it's not that important to me. To me, RF photography is a "style" - throw some black and white film in your camera and take "street" photos and candids that produce high-quality results in black and white (usually). I want at least "some" control over the camera - SS or aperture, but the key is a great fast lens and stealthiness.

A $100 Konica Auto S3 (Or a Fujica Compact Deluxe, or an Oly SP or RD... there's a bunch of them) gives me everything I want - it even rivals the Leica in the lens quality department if you're to believe the infamous "62-82" center resolution claims for the Konica. It's actually better in some respects - having a pretty cool flash system and is stealthier, smaller, and even probably quiter, I think, than a Leica.

Again - this is a camera you can get in good condition for $100-$150-ish. To me, the value proposition just isn't there with a Leica, especially on the used market, when compared to the better Japanese FLRF cameras. A camera like a Konica Auto S3 gets you where you want need to be without spending a wad.
 
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Nick, I began my RF experience with several Japanese fixed lens cameras. They were nice, and great value, but the Leica to me, feels so much better, like the diff between a Chevy Chevette and a Lexus. A used Leica M can be bought for the same amount as several of the fixed lens RF cameras, so the price is not silly high, and you get the Lexus feel. I can't aford a Lexus, and I wouldn't pay the price of a new Leica, but a used M2? No problem.
 
FrankS said:
Nick, I began my RF experience with several Japanese fixed lens cameras. They were nice, and great value, but the Leica to me, feels so much better, like the diff between a Chevy Chevette and a Lexus. A used Leica M can be bought for the same amount as several of the fixed lens RF cameras, so the price is not silly high, and you get the Lexus feel. I can't aford a Lexus, and I wouldn't pay the price of a new Leica, but a used M2? No problem.
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Frank - been tempted many times. Yes, you can find Leica bodies that won't break the bank - but then you're itchin' for a Cron, (and no, the Cosina lenses simple won't do... Nor will the FSUs, except as a "filler lens" until you get the Cron...) Then the 35, then all the other focal lengths...

I'd have to go to a LOT of trouble to Frankenstein a Cron on to a Konica FLRF 🙂 Stuck with the lens I got that's bolted to the camera. I don't keep beer in the house for the same reason (or single malt scotch for that matter). Ain't there, therefore won't be sucking them down... Know thine self 🙂
 
FrankS said:
Nick, I began my RF experience with several Japanese fixed lens cameras. They were nice, and great value, but the Leica to me, feels so much better, like the diff between a Chevy Chevette and a Lexus. A used Leica M can be bought for the same amount as several of the fixed lens RF cameras, so the price is not silly high, and you get the Lexus feel. I can't aford a Lexus, and I wouldn't pay the price of a new Leica, but a used M2? No problem.
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Here, Here!, this morning I walked around my local park with the M2 and one lens - my humble, but rather nice Jupiter 8, the resulting Agfa 400 negs are now hanging near a radiator to dry. If I had screwed the J8 on my Fed 2, the result would have been the same, but that M just feels so much nicer!, tactile!...not grease!....is the word!
Cheers, Dave. 🙂
 
No one is forced to go with expensive Leica glass. I don't. I do have some older Leica lenses, but don't even entertain the idea of getting a Noctilux or an asphereical lens. I'd rather have a Leica body and no Leica lenses, than Leica lenses with no Leica body. That's just me. A J8, J3, or Canon 50 f1.8 would be fine.
 
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Bah! You guys are a bad influence. Puts hands over ears... Lah, lah, lah... States mantra - I will not buy another camera, I will not buy another camera...
 
Back to the Konica Auto S3. Here's why I'm getting a growing appreciation for that camera... Tiny, great lens. I have kids and some nephews. They have now been conditioned to run when "Uncle Nick" has his camera... They call me the "paparazzi". I've shot them with a number of cameras over the years...

I am able to get the most candids with the Konica Auto S3. It's so small, stealthy, and quite they don't notice it. I prefocus - snap. That's the only camera I own that they don't notice me putting to my eye and are usually completely unaware I took their pic. Combine this with the great glass... and "to me" for my purposes, it's what a RF is all about. I have enough control to throw the background out of focus... I can shoot at its max ap with 62 lines in the center - I get good pics wide open. It's a late RF so the coating is decent against flare...

The Leica - a bigger camera, would certainly get noticed. The Konica passes the stealth test better. For what I consider the practical advantages of the RF - the Konica, I'm sure, would have the Leica beat.
 
The S3 would be a great camera for me if it also had full manual control as well as shutter priority. I used to have one. Great lens, small size. You should try a Leica CL. 🙂
 
FrankS said:
The S3 would be a great camera for me if it also had full manual control as well as shutter priority. I used to have one. Great lens, small size. You should try a Leica CL. 🙂
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Work arounds - exposure lock, ASA control. No, not as good as manual, of course, but I use manual to compensate for backlighting (point to floor, lock exposure), and to set to a faster SS to get the aperture where I want it to throw background out of focus (not hard to do with SS). If I'm shooting at 1600 ISO, I use a different camera or just set it to 800 - not that big of a deal.

Love to own a CL too... And a Hexar - both of them, and a G, and a Leica... I'd have a darned warehouse.

Actually, I don't think a Leica would make me a better photographer or improve my pic all that much is what it boils down to. And, I think my latest camera count is 8? Enough! 🙂
 
When I take my Leica on the street I feel self conscious that people might think I'm a poser. This is despite the black tape all over its logos.

That disrupts my concentration and I take lousy photos. So, Leica makes me a bad photographer!?
 
Why wouldnt Voigtländer lenses do just fine? I dont know. I'd be very happy with a 35/1.7 Ultron, but I just was lucky to find a 'cron at about the same price so I got it. Mostly just because it is smaller. Maybe a bit sharper wide open too.
I certainly wouldn't have bought it for the normal price and I will surely kind of miss my Ultron.
 
Nh3 said:
When I take my Leica on the street I feel self conscious that people might think I'm a poser. This is despite the black tape all over its logos.

That disrupts my concentration and I take lousy photos. So, Leica makes me a bad photographer!?
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Add to that "fear of getting caught" and it would be enough to make a rationale man give up photography altogether!
 
Gumby said:
Add to that "fear of getting caught" and it would be enough to make a rationale man give up photography altogether!
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Its also not fit for a tough guy on the street image. Joe Peci, Tony Soprano, Dirty Harry, Rambo, Bruce Lee, Jet lee (maybe he will lol) none of these guys would carry a Leica.

😛
 
Nh3 said:
When I take my Leica on the street I feel self conscious that people might think I'm a poser. This is despite the black tape all over its logos.

That disrupts my concentration and I take lousy photos. So, Leica makes me a bad photographer!?
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That's your subconscious telling you that you are a poser because you tape up your camera.
 
photogdave said:
That's your subconscious telling you that you are a poser because you tape up your camera.
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I don't think subconscious tells us anything to do, if that was the case it would the "conscious mind" not the "subconscious", get it? 🙂

Edit: instead of being a troll, try to take better pictures. You're added to the ignore bin as well.
 
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Nh3 said:
When I take my Leica on the street I feel self conscious that people might think I'm a poser. This is despite the black tape all over its logos.

That disrupts my concentration and I take lousy photos. So, Leica makes me a bad photographer!?
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Beats me why anyone puts black tape on a Leica,-or any other old camera.....unless it has light leaks?. No ones ever taken eception to my choice of camera, if they did I would probably give sound advice regarding sex and travel!! .....now I suppose I'm on the ignore list! 😀
Dave.
 
Dave Wilkinson said:
Beats me why anyone puts black tape on a Leica,-or any other old camera.....unless it has light leaks?. No ones ever taken eception to my choice of camera, if they did I would probably give sound advice regarding sex and travel!! .....now I suppose I'm on the ignore list! 😀
Dave.
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First of all it stops all those who are ready for gear chat (as mentioned above)... And this is crucial for me because I can get distracted very fast and I try very hard to concentrate. Secondly it makes the gear look "cheap" which throws off some of the potential thieves.

And on a personal level I refuse to be a means of mobile advertisement for camera companies.
 
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