Are we Leica users kidding ourselves??
- Thread starter rayfoxlee
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cmogi10
Bodhisattva
All my cameras are taped up. When the company's paying me to use their gear I'll flash the logo on the front to everyone.
As a perk I like how all black looks. No logos, no markings, no anything on any of the bodies.
As a perk I like how all black looks. No logos, no markings, no anything on any of the bodies.
JPSuisse
Well-known
This is an interesting thread.
Previous posts that would lead the reader to the idea that taking pictures is akin to religion somewhat exceed my imagination:
1.) It seems arrogant to put the Creator (here you can pick which ever one you are "affiliated" with) on the same level as the simple act of taking pictures. Here we are clearly losing some sense of perspective. Also, creating the world and creating a picture does not seem to present quite the same level of complexity.
2.) What I can agree with though is that in engaging in any activity, you have to be willing to "forget a part of yourself" and to become "one" with that activity.
3.) As an artist, you will likely seek to control all variables. This gives you the biggest ability to produce exactly YOUR intent.
For 2.) and 3.), there is a good argument for me to use Leicas. They are unobtrusive and I can easily forget them while working. Also, a manual camera makes you thing about all the variables. Always. So, I do feel I'm more able to produce to my intent. I'm not saying it's the only tool that could do this for me. But, it's where I ended up for reasons 2.) and 3.) Also, has far as the technical quality goes (sharpness, resolution, color depth), they are very good to excellent.
No fooling going on here.
JP
ps.-Nick, the Japanese did not eat the market away from the German luxury car manufacturers in the 80s. That was the hey-day of the BMW M6, 528e, etc. in the US. Also, except in the US where Lexus has gained a reasonable market share in the late 90s, I don't see really much market erosion anywhere else. (By the way, I don't have a German car...)
Previous posts that would lead the reader to the idea that taking pictures is akin to religion somewhat exceed my imagination:
1.) It seems arrogant to put the Creator (here you can pick which ever one you are "affiliated" with) on the same level as the simple act of taking pictures. Here we are clearly losing some sense of perspective. Also, creating the world and creating a picture does not seem to present quite the same level of complexity.
2.) What I can agree with though is that in engaging in any activity, you have to be willing to "forget a part of yourself" and to become "one" with that activity.
3.) As an artist, you will likely seek to control all variables. This gives you the biggest ability to produce exactly YOUR intent.
For 2.) and 3.), there is a good argument for me to use Leicas. They are unobtrusive and I can easily forget them while working. Also, a manual camera makes you thing about all the variables. Always. So, I do feel I'm more able to produce to my intent. I'm not saying it's the only tool that could do this for me. But, it's where I ended up for reasons 2.) and 3.) Also, has far as the technical quality goes (sharpness, resolution, color depth), they are very good to excellent.
No fooling going on here.
JP
ps.-Nick, the Japanese did not eat the market away from the German luxury car manufacturers in the 80s. That was the hey-day of the BMW M6, 528e, etc. in the US. Also, except in the US where Lexus has gained a reasonable market share in the late 90s, I don't see really much market erosion anywhere else. (By the way, I don't have a German car...)
Holmz
Established
Migracer
"MigRacer&amp ;qu ot; AKA Miguel
BMW vs Lexus
BMW vs Lexus
The Zen of photography and driving.
The Leica reputation was built on; superior engineering, excellent fit and finish. professional endorsements, the right combination to build a legend. This became the profile for post war success for post war Germany and Japan as they started to rebuild their economies.
Where Japan excelled is application engineering and later with the help of Americans marketing. The Lexus brand is just another Toyota model in the rest of the world. Except in America where it is a brand onto itself. The Lexus is a wonderful automobile, but it is not ever going to be a BMW replacement. It is all about the culture, The Lexus buyer main concern is the statement their purchase makes, and the fact that it is reliable to a fault. The BMW buyer is also making a statement but gets a bonus of the sporting pedigree and the enthusiastic support network of its owners.
Lets see a show of hands. How many Leica Owners also own a German Car? How many own a Lexus?
BMW vs Lexus
The Zen of photography and driving.
The Leica reputation was built on; superior engineering, excellent fit and finish. professional endorsements, the right combination to build a legend. This became the profile for post war success for post war Germany and Japan as they started to rebuild their economies.
Where Japan excelled is application engineering and later with the help of Americans marketing. The Lexus brand is just another Toyota model in the rest of the world. Except in America where it is a brand onto itself. The Lexus is a wonderful automobile, but it is not ever going to be a BMW replacement. It is all about the culture, The Lexus buyer main concern is the statement their purchase makes, and the fact that it is reliable to a fault. The BMW buyer is also making a statement but gets a bonus of the sporting pedigree and the enthusiastic support network of its owners.
Lets see a show of hands. How many Leica Owners also own a German Car? How many own a Lexus?
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I won't pay exorbitant prices for designer jackets or sweat shirts, with names and logos emblazoned across them, - but 6mm high lettering on a camera!.....c'mon!🙄
nbphoto
Member
Spookily I drive a Maserati, all be it an older very basic one. I have owned my M6 for 3 months now, after coming from a Mamiya RZ67, and before that a Nikon D2X. The leica in comparison to the two previous cameras gives really terrible picture quality to be fair, in the same way my Maserati doesnt give a glorious ride. The Leica is slow to use, in the same way the Maserati is a bit outdated and slower than an modern gti. Sometimes with the leica I forget to focus/or load the film wrong.. sometimes on cold days the Maserati fails to start.
The Leica has no extra features that are not strictly required to take photographs.. The Maserati has electric windows, but little else by way of comforts or toys.
The leica feels well built, as if it will last a life time. The maserati doesnt 😉
The Leica is unobtrusive and goes un-noticed by most. So does the Masser. I personally think thats its biggest plus point. If you prefer film to digital (which I do) and want to go un-noticed in the street then a black M6 is a pretty good choice. Forget all the tape etc, its not needed, no one gives a stuff about a old film camera without a flash even. Only keen photograpers even know what a Leica M looks like nowdays.
The Leica has no extra features that are not strictly required to take photographs.. The Maserati has electric windows, but little else by way of comforts or toys.
The leica feels well built, as if it will last a life time. The maserati doesnt 😉
The Leica is unobtrusive and goes un-noticed by most. So does the Masser. I personally think thats its biggest plus point. If you prefer film to digital (which I do) and want to go un-noticed in the street then a black M6 is a pretty good choice. Forget all the tape etc, its not needed, no one gives a stuff about a old film camera without a flash even. Only keen photograpers even know what a Leica M looks like nowdays.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
You're asking to be lynched, saying that around here....LOL I agree though, A D2x and an RB will blow away anything from a Leica. Not because Leicas are bad, but just because it is 35mm. There's just a limit to resolution with such small film.
rolo
Established
When you've seen a 48" wide print by Elliott Erwitt, you might realise it's not just about the film size.
You'll become more familiar with the operation of an M the more you use it.
It can be extremely fast in the right hands (not mine perhaps), when you can set your lenses without looking, use the shutter speed dial with the finger tip of your shutter finger whilst it's on the shutter button, rewind as you compose, you'll come to appreciate it more and more. Might take some three years, others never.
In a shooting situation, I can get through a roll of film in less than 2 minutes and that's enough to slow me down for the rest of the afternoon. 🙂
Rolo
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
If anyone thinks their photos are better or worse because of a camera please explain how a "light box" takes pictures all by itself. Even the dreaded digital cameras don't point themselves and click the shutter (though they do almost everything else). Jeez, you can substitute "lens" for "camera" and you'll get less an argument out of me - even though I think this is wrong headed, too. But at least there's a direct relationship between subject/lens/film plane. But the camera?
I used to use the quote below as part of my signature here. I repeat it because it is simplicity itself, and should be evident to all, yet it always seems up for debate:
"The best photographer will take better photos from the worst camera than the worst amateur can take with the best camera." - Karen Nakamura
I used to use the quote below as part of my signature here. I repeat it because it is simplicity itself, and should be evident to all, yet it always seems up for debate:
"The best photographer will take better photos from the worst camera than the worst amateur can take with the best camera." - Karen Nakamura
dave lackey
Veteran
Ahhh, be careful of taking the position of "absolutes". There are many instances where a particular camera will allow you to obtain photographs when other cameras will not. Action sports v. rangefinders is one simple case.
The differences between rangefinders are very small compared to, say, a Nikon D2H/D2XD3 in obtaining sports action images which is what I have done for years now. No, I would not dream of going on the field with just my M3...😱
nbphoto
Member
I agree entirely. For 35mm film, the M system probably produces some of the highest quality possible in the limited film area. I guess what I was trying to say was, I always knew the RZ would blow the M away if we are just talking about image quality, but I would expect the M to resolve details on 35mm to a similar level as a fairly good digital SLR system. I always compared my digital results with 120 film and thought film resolved more detail. No I can compare okish digital to 35mm film (not owned a 35mm for a long while) and I think digital resolves more detail. This is not a critisism of Leica's, just my observations 35mm vs digital at similar price points.
As others have said, theres more to this than resolving the most detailed image in a particular test case. I love the way the M handles, the magic of film, the feeling of using a quality intrument vs plastic box full of chips etc. The M6 is a keeper! Just need to get that 35mm lens to go with it now.