Are you anxious about the demise of film?

[kuzano]

Quality vs availability....

Quality vs availability....

I don't worry about the future (availability) of film as much as changing emulsions and quality.

I'd quit worrying about that as well, if someone would just get serious about offering a truly great scanner, along with truly great film holders.

Jeez????

 

[Steve Bellayr]

Film will not become unavailable in my lifetime but maybe the processing of the film and the printing photographess might become very difficult in which case I would be forced to go digital. The issue for my would then be going from an M6 to an M9. Other than a Leica I would be at a complete loss for a camera that I would find adequate to my needs. Even then the prospect of print production raises its evil head. How much digital equipment (other than cameras) do I want to purchase to print approximately 4 11x14 prints a years along with a few 5x7s and 8x10s? I think that becomes the issue for the pro-am. What should be my investment in digital support equipment and programs for my camera and lenses as it is a hobby? Most of us will deal with the issue when we are confronted by those crossroads. I am certain that there will be options.

 

[japancamerahunter]

I am not that worried. Film will still be available in my lifetime, it is just going to change a bit. The quality and the range available will change, but that is not such a bad thing. We are going back to the days when there was not so much choice, where people had to work within the limitations of the tools that they had. Should be interesting.
Cheers
Japancamerahunter

 

[Aristophanes]

Follow the money.

Even for B&W the problem is that it requires a substantial capital investment in industrial machinery to make film. Who is making cameras to take this film? And are they doing so in enough volume to keep a film factory operation through a capital investment amortization?

No. Not Leica. Not Lomo. Not Zeiss Ikon. Not the last Fuji camera.

The emulsion film industry is, and for the future, supported by the economy of scale of the motion picture industry. Until a brand emerges to make some autofocus, affordable cameras in a variety of styles (SLR absolutely, RF, and P&S...with a 120 folder and maybe a Rollei-like TLR), then the ability to keep *any* film factory running is suspect.

All the APUG self-developers cannot sustain even a tightly run Ilford with a customer base shrinking as cameras succumb to entropy.

It is entirely possible that in the next 5 years film may not survive because no new cameras means no new customers, means a shrinking revenue stream. Every time an emulsion machine breaks, it is junk from then on. The cost per unit could rise so much that new users and old timers alike will balk at $25/roll HP5 and $6/print costs. At which point the market capitulates. This is an industrial age industry that absolutely requires a certain point of mass production, which it does not look likely to achieve

Film photography will go back to being a hobby industry of those making experimental emulsions and become more of an art an craft than a mass consumer hobby.

A dark emulsion roller and packaging room is a $60 million piece of equipment, largely bypassed by the robotics and automation of other industries, so it is highly dependent on hands-on technicians. When those folks see the money flee their employers, they will flee to other industries. In fact, this is already happening both with Fuji and Kodak.

 

[wgerrard]

Follow the money...

Who is making cameras to take this film?

Exactly. Film at least 35mm film, is a business that relies on people using products no one has made for at least several years. Film will continue to be made in amortized facilities as long as it turns a profit and the corporations can't make more money by scrapping it all. After that.... poof.

 

[newsgrunt]

If film does go the way of the dodo, I can finally spend some time with my fly rod chasing pike and musky.

 

[tunalegs]

There are of course companies making parts for cars that have been out of production for decades now.

Eventually, it will go "poof", undoubtedly. But likely not within the next several decades.

 

[Neare]

http://jasonkeath.com/vinyl-album-sales-are-up-25-in-2011/

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/vinyl-sales-increase-despite-industry-slump-20110106


quite off-topic, I know, but could this happen to film (lomography already converted lots of young people to analog photography)

Film sales are supposedly up 20% this year.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I'm not worried in any way... I really think b&w film's life span is only at its beginning, and it will be made for centuries. We like it...

If it was necessary, I'd even buy a lower quality, more expensive product. It's a nice story not seeing the just taken images, and then, some other time, creating a fix contrast, physical original after development. Not to mention printing optically, without using computers. There will be people playing the game long after we're all gone. The birth of photography and the end of the 19th century are close to our days: very few generations indeed... This is just beginning...

I was worried when digital came in a massive way more than a decade ago, but nothing important happened to b&w film... Just normal changes in sales, and in "home" and "pro" products and tools, but b&w users know, years ago, digital can't replace b&w, so both will live together.

Unless digital goes away for some reason... Who can be sure we won't have a huge elecromagnetic problem one day? Or any other problem we can't even imagine now...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[el fotografo]

I'm not worried, I'm frustrated.
I'm a C-41 color film user and my options are shrinking.
I have a cabinet full of well maintained, well used Leica and Contax bodies and my 100 ASA options are down to Lomography and Kodak Gold three packs from B and H.
B & W is nice, but I like what I get out of my M8 without the developing and scanning.
So, am I'm worried, no just bummed..

 

[maddoc]

I was worried when digital came in a massive way more than a decade ago, but nothing important happened to b&w film... Just normal changes in sales, and in "home" and "pro" products and tools, but b&w users know, years ago, digital can't replace b&w, so both will live together.


Cheers,

Juan

I would like to have some recently produced rolls of Kodak HIE, Fuji Neopan Superpresto, TXP320 in 120 then please ! 🙂😉

 

[rxmd]

@rxmd... I genuinely respect you here on RFF so I'm a little surprised by this thread you've started. I'm also equally surprised at the number of people who are concerned based on this poll.

Sometimes I wish "film was dead" then I wouldn't hear this stuff any longer.

@jan normandale... To be honest I started the poll because after all those recent threads I was genuinely interested whether people are really as panicked as the climate in those threads makes it seem.

I'm quite happy to find out that by and large they aren't, which is a nice positive result. I'm also happy that by and large people have managed not to turn this into a pointless film vs. digital debate and just answer the question without the usual pathological pessimism, which overall speaks well for their rationality after all.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I would like to have some recently produced rolls of Kodak HIE, Fuji Neopan Superpresto, TXP320 in 120 then please ! 🙂😉

Seems like some good photographers did some good images without any of those, and with a lot less than we have today... 🙂😉

Cheers,

Juan

 

[robklurfield]

When audio CDs came onto market, promising "perfect sound" forever, lots of folks worried about the demise of good, old-fashioned vinyl LPs. While they did decline to near nothingness for a while, one might notice that not only are there companies once again releasing recordings on vinyl, but even the hardware makers at all levels of the market (from the really cheap all-in-one record players to the ultra high end turntable makers) staged quite a comeback of their own (anyone in the market for a $2K, $5K or even $20K turntable with no arm, no cartridge, no interconnect cable? such stuff is available AND it sells). Online digital, even now cloud-based, delivery of music has certainly forever altered the landscape people my age grew up with where vinyl was everything. Now it's a niche market for hobbyists, aficionados, gear geeks, collectors, retro freaks, etc. BUT, it still exists and has a somewhat loyal following.

So, if film is to vinyl as digicams are to film cams, perhaps there's hope. It would seem to me that the market can support small specialist makers. If Kodak declares bankruptcy, breaks itself apart, etc., it seems to me that some firm will jump in to acquire its film manufacturing assets, licenses, etc. Just as Kobayashi San saw lasting value in Voigtlander as a brand name, perhaps some other enterprising business person will see a way to rescue, preserve or remake Kodak's film business. Of course, their digital and sensor business is completely different story. I imagine that one of their biggest assets is in patents and licenses. I would expect this to be the part that they hang on to in some fashion or sell to someone else who can make something good of it. Don't expect prices to stay low as the market becomes more niche-oriented. Economies of scale will shrink, metal prices will continue to impact film and specialist makers will need higher margins to stay in business.

One last thought: there are still companies that make buggy whips. Not many of them. There are still companies that make pencils. DON'T PANIC. We'll all survive just fine.

My two cents worth...

 

[maddoc]

Seems like some good photographers did some good images without any of those, and with a lot less than we have today... 🙂😉

Cheers,

Juan

... "but nothing important happened to b&w film... Just normal changes in sales" Not some good photographer could do some good images at their time using what they had but the choices of film have become very limited was my point. 🙂

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

... "but nothing important happened to b&w film... Just normal changes in sales" Not some good photographer could do some good images at their time using what they had but the choices of film have become very limited was my point. 🙂

Mine is it was their choices of film the limited ones, not ours. 🙂

Cheers,

Juan

 

[LeicaFan]

It's obvious that film is going to die very quickly. Soon enough film M's will be worth next to nothing, peanuts, and digital cameras will rule the world.

In an effort to help out the RFF members, I will buy your film M's for $100, which I believe to be a great deal considering the circumstances. 😀

 

[kehng]

Reading the BBC website every morning I'm more concerned about the demise of my ability to afford film

 

[Richard G]

Who would have predicted the return of vinyl, or the new Zeiss Ikon or the amazing ZM lenses or the iPhone. I am not worried about film.

 

[bobbyrab]

Does anyone here actually have some real, concrete knowledge of what is required to run an economically viable film production plant? I imagine it to be a lot more complex and difficult procedure than pressing vinyl albums, which seems to me to be the best analogy that's been used so far. But I could be completely wrong. Anyone?