jsrockit
Moderator
Not really... I'm ok using digital these days. There will always be something to use to photograph...
Are you anxious about the demise of film?
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maddoc
... likes film again.
Judging from the speed only Yodobashi Camera in Tokyo (the main branch) in the last year has reduced the variety, stock and display space of film (their film-selling department had to switch space with the traveling goods department, not the main business of a consumer electronic and camera shop ...) the business does not look to good ... Similar, in Nagoya`s Biccamera, I bought 20% of the complete stock of 120 BW film on display two weeks ago, 8 rolls .... Nagoya is the third-lagest town in Japan with a quite active photographer scene and Biccamera is the only large shop there.
Watching this development, I am afraid about the demise of film, not about if film is made but more about the availablity.
Watching this development, I am afraid about the demise of film, not about if film is made but more about the availablity.
perudo
Established
well, I'm confident that film will be available for a very long time (longer than me, and I'm only 30!), even if only as a niche market.
Like said earlier, tube amps are still available, and tubes made today still sound great, sometimes even better comparing the price you pay nowadays than before...
Concerning film: I'm a Kodak fan, and would really miss tri-x and t-max.... but now I am considering to make the move to smaller companies like adox or foma, because I get the feeling those smaller companies could fit in the niche market film is becoming!
Concerning darkroom printing, I already use exclusively foma papers ( they are cheap and really good! half the price than Ilford)
Adox, is the only company I know who are trying to put out new Printing papers or reissue old forgotten papers like agfa.
Like said earlier, tube amps are still available, and tubes made today still sound great, sometimes even better comparing the price you pay nowadays than before...
Concerning film: I'm a Kodak fan, and would really miss tri-x and t-max.... but now I am considering to make the move to smaller companies like adox or foma, because I get the feeling those smaller companies could fit in the niche market film is becoming!
Concerning darkroom printing, I already use exclusively foma papers ( they are cheap and really good! half the price than Ilford)
Adox, is the only company I know who are trying to put out new Printing papers or reissue old forgotten papers like agfa.
Mikeds80
Member
After reading through threads and articles about Kodak I have decided not to worry myself. That isn't to say I don't think Kodak's days are numbered, but if they go down and bring all their film with them so be it. I have lost far more important things (people really) than any emulsion of film.
The only thing I know is I will continue shooting film, until I stop shooting film of course.
The only thing I know is I will continue shooting film, until I stop shooting film of course.
zauhar
Veteran
Keith, the friendly corner stores still exist, if hanging by a thread. There would be lots more of them if people paid the small premium to shop at them rather than going to a corporate chain.
I would have no worries about the future of film if the level of greed was more like it was decades ago - in those halcyon times some company would be satisfied to make a small profit and keep film going. The trouble is, today there are analysts and investors and boards of directors, and they want to see a MAXIMAL profit. And if film doesn't deliver that they will be happy to kill it.
However, I just discovered that Ilford's new parent company was organized by managers of the original firm, so they are clearly in a different category than Kodak or Fuji. That makes a strong case for supporting them.
Randy
BobYIL
Well-known
Not concerned at all.. Today I counted the B&W sorts available at Freestyle's. Only the 35mm x 36 exposure rolls and only the B&W ones excluding the offerings by Kodak.
The result was 31... In the heydays of film photography when I started (1961) we did not have this many sorts.. and compared to our buying power those years, film prices are more convenient today. (Long years I had to buy 30m HP3 and HP4 rolls to spare cost.)
The result was 31... In the heydays of film photography when I started (1961) we did not have this many sorts.. and compared to our buying power those years, film prices are more convenient today. (Long years I had to buy 30m HP3 and HP4 rolls to spare cost.)
Calzone
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I am disappointed that Tri-X is in danger since I invested lots of time perfecting my negatives using this film over other films. I am also concerned also about Fuji Arcos because its another staple of mine.
I don't see B&W film becoming extinct or rare enough that I won't continue to be a retro man who stubbornly only shoots lots of B&W film. My selfish time line is 50 more years: during this time film will likely become more costly, but I'm in a position where I can afford anticipated future price increases. I'm thinking that over the long-long term continuing what I'm doing (shooting only B&W, processing myself, and wet printing) is sustainable even though it might not be as cost effective in the end when compared to going digital, because I'm pretty sure I will not feel the same level of passion for quality that I currently enjoy if I shoot digital.
As film becomes more expensive it will be likely that I will offset the anticipated expenses by shooting less, but I'll likely shoot more and more medium format instead of 135.
What I am more worried about is getting and recreating the quality negatives I get now. For example I can substitute HP5 for Tr-X and get similar results and even an addition of some film speed, but it won't be as fine grained. Arcos provides a film that offers zero reciprocy failure, and I don't know of another film that can replace Acos offering this important feature for urban night photography that is becomming more important to my work.
I find these likely forced changes to be highly annoying; seems like now, all of the sudden, I have deadlines that I have to exploit before envelopes close; and I did not feel this pressure before.
Also as far as gear goes, the only addition to my signature might be a 0.85 MP; and another concern of mine is getting all the gear I now own serviced for the decades to come, because I also anticipate that as the film suppy dies off getting film cameras serviced will be a problem.
As you can tell I am an anxious person who has thoughtfully thought ahead, but things are changing rather drastically, and I never anticipated that dire events might happen so soon.
Cal
I don't see B&W film becoming extinct or rare enough that I won't continue to be a retro man who stubbornly only shoots lots of B&W film. My selfish time line is 50 more years: during this time film will likely become more costly, but I'm in a position where I can afford anticipated future price increases. I'm thinking that over the long-long term continuing what I'm doing (shooting only B&W, processing myself, and wet printing) is sustainable even though it might not be as cost effective in the end when compared to going digital, because I'm pretty sure I will not feel the same level of passion for quality that I currently enjoy if I shoot digital.
As film becomes more expensive it will be likely that I will offset the anticipated expenses by shooting less, but I'll likely shoot more and more medium format instead of 135.
What I am more worried about is getting and recreating the quality negatives I get now. For example I can substitute HP5 for Tr-X and get similar results and even an addition of some film speed, but it won't be as fine grained. Arcos provides a film that offers zero reciprocy failure, and I don't know of another film that can replace Acos offering this important feature for urban night photography that is becomming more important to my work.
I find these likely forced changes to be highly annoying; seems like now, all of the sudden, I have deadlines that I have to exploit before envelopes close; and I did not feel this pressure before.
Also as far as gear goes, the only addition to my signature might be a 0.85 MP; and another concern of mine is getting all the gear I now own serviced for the decades to come, because I also anticipate that as the film suppy dies off getting film cameras serviced will be a problem.
As you can tell I am an anxious person who has thoughtfully thought ahead, but things are changing rather drastically, and I never anticipated that dire events might happen so soon.
Cal
froyd
Veteran
I'm anxious too. Sure, film will probably be around for many more years, but will I be able to afford shooting the same volumes I used to? Will I have to resort to home developing to avoid the increasingly high development costs?
I am amazed by how many people answered "not anxious". their experience must be very different from mine. In the past 4 years I've seen:
- Price of film increase
- Popular emulsions disappear
- My best local pro-lab shut its doors
- The second pro-lab in town discontinuing BW development and printing AND raising the cost of C-41 process to $18 for 120 with small proof prints
- Local selection of 120 film dwindle to 3-4 different types of emulsions, forcing me to order film online
I send film as far as Vermont, Texas and California from my PA home base because BW service is no longer available.
Much as I like XP2. I am not thrilled that sometimes I pick it over Tri-X because it's easier and less expensive to have developed at a lab.
Sure, there are work-arounds to all these issues, but when will the erosion stop? Not too long ago it would have been easy to find a good quality, affordable local lab. Now I have to go out of state and entrust my film to USPS. When film becomes even more niche and national options go away, will I need to ship my film to Mexico?
All I can say is thank goodness for hipsters and their plastic MF cameras!
froyd
Veteran
do tell us more about the deal of the century... or is this a closely protected secret source? 😀
willie_901
Veteran
I was anxious 5 years ago.
Then I accepted the world-wide decline in film usage in all areas. When Hollywood goes 90% digital there will be another crisis.
Then I accepted the world-wide decline in film usage in all areas. When Hollywood goes 90% digital there will be another crisis.
NickTrop
Veteran
I think the death of film will not happen - even if Kodak bites the dust, which I speculate will be soon. By "soon" I mean within the next 5 years. That will not bode well for 35mm film, in my opinion. 35mm film is already dead for all intents and purposes as a mass market commercial product. It was kept afloat with disposable cameras for a while but anecdotally, I'm even seeing these take up less and less retail space. It does not worry me as much as it used to because I'm of the opinion that APS-C and full-frame sensor give me comparable quality to 35mm film. Also, the cost of gear has come down to where film cameras are more expensive factoring in consumable and processing costs. With each new generation of camera, quality has improved to where whatever advantage film may have in dynamic range is negated by the cost factors, convenience, flexibility, auto ISO, auto and manual white balance, etc. I mainly shoot film for fun now, and have converted over to small film cameras - Olympus XA, Yashica T3, Ricoh FF, to play with because I enjoy shooting them.
Film will exist in the professional realm in medium and large format. It will exist as a niche item for people who enjoy the "quaint" hobby of developing negatives and making prints. Ironically, the future of color film is questionable but black and white will survive for this niche. Kodak will be gone and it's anybody's guess what will happen to their film product line.
Pure speculation, of course, on my part - but this is how I see it playing out over the next five years, a sad reversal over what I thought a couple years ago. Ultimately, I'm not worried because digital cameras have come a long way and give me comparable quality to 35mm for my purposes. I think it will exist in larger formats if I get the "medium format bug" again and start shooting that (but it will be expensive...) I think 35mm film will be available - possibly not Kodak lines, for who wish to shoot it. Black and white will definitely survive in 35mm but the future for color print and especially slide film, long term, is questionable. It will become more expensive at any rate, and for color print/slide harder and harder to get processed and more expensive to the point where it will only be worth it to the true die hards.
Film will exist in the professional realm in medium and large format. It will exist as a niche item for people who enjoy the "quaint" hobby of developing negatives and making prints. Ironically, the future of color film is questionable but black and white will survive for this niche. Kodak will be gone and it's anybody's guess what will happen to their film product line.
Pure speculation, of course, on my part - but this is how I see it playing out over the next five years, a sad reversal over what I thought a couple years ago. Ultimately, I'm not worried because digital cameras have come a long way and give me comparable quality to 35mm for my purposes. I think it will exist in larger formats if I get the "medium format bug" again and start shooting that (but it will be expensive...) I think 35mm film will be available - possibly not Kodak lines, for who wish to shoot it. Black and white will definitely survive in 35mm but the future for color print and especially slide film, long term, is questionable. It will become more expensive at any rate, and for color print/slide harder and harder to get processed and more expensive to the point where it will only be worth it to the true die hards.
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perudo
Established
in 2000 vinyl was dead and a niche market for indie music.
In 2007 vinyl became attractive to the music industry again (mainly because of digital download and of the decline of cd) and now we see reissues on vinyl from albums previously only available on cd!
So: will the x100 be reissued as film camera in 2020? 😎:bang:
In 2007 vinyl became attractive to the music industry again (mainly because of digital download and of the decline of cd) and now we see reissues on vinyl from albums previously only available on cd!
So: will the x100 be reissued as film camera in 2020? 😎:bang:
Bobbo
Well-known
One word: APUG. 'nuff said.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I'm with Gabor on availability becoming the problem for many. Living where I do mail-order is my only option and has been for five years or more. I now can't easily get to any store that sells anything but a token amount of B&W film without driving for an hour and a half plus. Paper? Forget about it. Mail ordering will become the norm for all but dwellers of the largest cities if it isn't already. Cost was certainly one driver of my decision to mail-order supplies when I left NYC in 1990, and I suspect many here get film by mail-order over any local shops that might still carry it for this same reason.
I don't doubt there will be film and paper around as long as I'm able to use it, and as Adox and Ilford and Foma are proving there is a market for those companies nimble enough to play the game. Every semester I have students who fall for film over digital- the pleasures of the darkroom are something very rare in modern life- a slow-paced relaxing break from our screen-driven existence.
I don't doubt there will be film and paper around as long as I'm able to use it, and as Adox and Ilford and Foma are proving there is a market for those companies nimble enough to play the game. Every semester I have students who fall for film over digital- the pleasures of the darkroom are something very rare in modern life- a slow-paced relaxing break from our screen-driven existence.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
It explains why Wall Street freaks out at just about anything: they must have their own vBulletin forum. And I agree with the observation that they're like babies: they really hate change. The slightest bit of change and you can hear their tantrum four blocks down the street.
Change is bad. Very bad.
Out to Lunch
Veteran
Well, if I don't buy that Leica M9 I can still buy 1.403 rolls of TMax 400 in Romania today...or 6.666 rolls of Fujicolor 200 in Vietnam. I think I'm OK.
jsrockit
Moderator
Vinyl in 2000 was a niche market, in 2007 was a niche market, and still is niche market.
jsrockit
Moderator
Damn, $7,000 only gets you one and half rolls of tmax and six and two thirds rolls of fujicolor? 😱
Out to Lunch
Veteran
OK, comma then.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
I'm not really that anxious. There are still lots of companies, and lots of emulsions to choose from. I seriously doubt Kodak is going to go under. I have a feeling Fuji will probably continue to discontinue until they have only a few films left (I feel certain at this point that they'll be cutting all non-T-grain film, the old Neopan is pretty much dead in the water at this point, but Acros should continue).
And aside from Kodak and Fuji, there's Ilford, Efke, Foma, et al. I'm not much of a fan of Ilford's films, but Efke's films make a nice replacement for traditional films like plus-x and neopan SS. I only know Foma from using their movie film a decade ago, but it's probable I'll be buying a couple rolls soon and see how that goes.
(also a number of companies and emulsions disappeared in the 50s and 60s, so really it's business as usual)
And aside from Kodak and Fuji, there's Ilford, Efke, Foma, et al. I'm not much of a fan of Ilford's films, but Efke's films make a nice replacement for traditional films like plus-x and neopan SS. I only know Foma from using their movie film a decade ago, but it's probable I'll be buying a couple rolls soon and see how that goes.
(also a number of companies and emulsions disappeared in the 50s and 60s, so really it's business as usual)
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