Ask Photographers for Criticism?

[martin s]

There's an interesting article on John Scalzis Blog.

He writes:

1. The job of a writer is to write. So, I’m looking at one of my book contracts. It says that I need to write a certain type of book (...)

Here’s what’s not in the contract:
1. That I critique the novels of other people;
2. That I offer any advice to people on how to get published;
3. That I arrange introductions to my agent, editor or publisher;
4. That I do any damn thing, in fact, other than write the book I’ve agreed to write.
The job of a writer is to write.

There's no question this applies to many other professions - certainly to photography. How do established* photographers amongst you react / think about this issue?

Since those of you reading this post will most likely be on the helpful-side anyway - merely since we're on a forum mostly based on helping others - I don't expect replies to mirror the real world, but it's still interesting to me.

I - for example - ask for help all the time, as you've probably realized should you monitor the Critique sub-forum semi-frequently. I also write to photographers, and I actually have established a mailing-list of professionals I send my stuff to when I need more detailed criticism (and don't have permission to post the images publicly).

I never had a bad encounter so far, people always seemed to enjoy being asked for their opinion - both in the photography- and writing world. Politeness is key.

What do you guys think?

* Let's please not try to establish a threshold of who qualifies as 'established', we all know it won't lead to anything.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I've never asked anything from a professional photographer. I'd be ashamed... and I wouldn't like to lead the person to think I can do what the pro does. As for asking for critiques... I must remind myself that the pro has a number of things in mind that leave very little room to offer "critiques."

However, as you said, politeness is the key! 🙂

Let's see who else pitches in.

We may assume that "established" and "professional" are work categories in this context. No need to ask anyone to "define professional" here.

 

[martin s]

I should mention, I aspire to become a journalist. If I'd photograph / write as a hobby with no ambition of getting a job I wouldn't contact professionals either (I guess).

I've never asked anything from a professional photographer. I'd be ashamed... and I wouldn't like to lead the person to think I can do what the pro does. As for asking for critiques... I must remind myself that the pro has a number of things in mind that leave very little room to offer "critiques."

Could you elaborate? Why ashamed? Also, 'little room' and why you think you compare yourself to the professional by asking him for his opinion? Great points by the way.

martin

 

[monochrome_joy]

Most of the photographers I've met and built relationships with have been photojournalists. Of those, most of them have been VERY willing to help and offer critique. Their point of view is that they were helped by the greats before them and it's their duty to help others coming up as well.

The most annoying questions posed to professionals are those about gear and traveling. The most likely to get feedback are open ended questions with maybe some back-story, ie. "I shot this photo at a wedding hoping to capture the joy... blah blah blah - can you off some thoughts on the photo with that in mind?" Also, don't send 50 photos for critique, send no more than 10 and ideally only a few of your VERY best - they'll probably ask you why you think they are your best.

I have also met photographers who are totally into themselves and/or very critical of amateur work and/or just jerks in general.

Keep in mind that those who you do contact may literally not have enough time for you or that your work is so amateurish that it would be difficult to not sound like a jerk. Don't take these things personally. Flowers take sunshine and **** to grow - don't focus too much on one or the other.

When and if I ever critique photos, I am NOT the kind that gives overwhelming praise - that is what your family/circle of friends are for. I try to be as honest as possible.

In the end, you have to decide what is best for YOUR photography and find someone who does similar work or you admire to critique or hopefully mentor you. Hope that helps, I'll think about this a little more and respond if I can think of something more to add.

**** EDIT ****
Ah, journalist - well then, I'll post more tonight - I've been somewhat on the same track and have gone to conferences, had my portfolio critiqued and stayed with a pro photojournalist for a week in Vietnam. Lots of thoughts here.

 

[David R Munson]

I got all the advice and criticism I needed while I was assisting thanks to the handful of really, really good guys I worked for. Photographers like this are easy to spot once you get your foot in the door. They asked to see your work in the first place (beware a commercial photographer who hires an assistant with no interest in whether or not the assistant can actually operate a camera) and then actually look at your portfolio. Generally, they will make comments. They will actually speak to you like a human being. While working, they continue to talk with you, find out more about you, and you naturally just glean a hell of a lot from working with them.

I remember one VERY big photographer in Chicago who I never ended up working for, as he had a group of full-time assistants he always used. Even though he had those guys, though, he had me come in and he spent two hours solid sitting with me in his kitchen giving me a detailed review of my portfolio and happily answering any and every question I could come up with.

And then there are the photographers who treat you like crap, throw **** at you, fail to pay you for six months, etc.... You learn nothing from them except how to cultivate bitterness.

Outside of the working context, there are two good ways to get criticism from working photographers. One (the better) is to take a workshop. Workshops are fantastic way to grow and learn as a photographer and to get quality feedback on your work. That is not to say that all workshops are good. Sadly they are not, so choose carefully, but a good workshop is worth the price of entry and then some.

The other way is to just explain your position clearly and ask nicely. It is amazing what you can get if you just ask for it in the right way. Most people seem to be perfectly receptive to offering up their experience and knowledge if approached respectfully.

Some people are just tight-lipped SOBs though, and there is no way around it. Avoid them and do not give it a second thought. They are not worth your time and are more likely to piss you off with an unkind remark than to do anything worthwhile or kind for you.

 

[Turtle]

A little story:

I'm in the process of shooting a long-term project and preparing myself, hopefully, for public interest in what I am doing after some smaller exhibitions a few years back within unrelated work. My current work is very topical and I feel cautiously, nervously confident that it will be of wider interest; however, I know that making the right start and garnering interest in the right circles is tough, as is critique from the right people.

After visiting a wet printer a while back in order to get my work ready for critical eyes, I was in a camera store picking up a second hand (RF!!!!) body, chatting with the wonderful owners, whom I have come to know. We were talking about the project, with some of my work visible, when a person I did not recognise entered the shop and started looking at my work. He began complimenting it with words more positive than I could have hoped for and asking me lots of questions about who I am and what I do. Unbeknown to me, the person in question was a very well known photographer whose work is likely familiar to all of us. I knew the name, but did not recognise the man. He told me to stay in touch, let him know how the work was progressing and to use his name liberally when dealing with galleries and agencies if it helped. He gave me all sorts of tips and leads to pursue.

The reason I bring this up, is that the man in question went out of his way to help me despite being at the pinnacle of the industry. It was obvious that he took pleasure from helping people and was fully aware of how tough it can be to open the first doors even if your work speaks for itself. He acknowledged how tough the industry is and how many name dropping snobs control the galleries etc. The whole experience blew me away having worked so darned hard to get my work to where it is an not expecting someone so influential to be so forthcoming. Talk about luck...

I think what I concluded was the least remarkable thing. The photographer in question exuded friendliness and warmth. Thats who he was and so his offers of assistance should hardly have been a surprise when it was clear that he genuinely liked my work. He was also not a cynic. He loves photography far more than himself and far beyond his own contributions and despite a very long career, that passion was clearly very much alive. Conversely, those who come across as self-absorbed ego maniacs should be expected to offer little assistance beyond allowing you to bask in the glory of their shadow.

You can't reach the greatest heights unless you give something back because it is only in the unburdened state of absolute devotion to something or someone other than yourself that the purest passion can be found. It reminds me of the Sandhurst motto: 'Serve to Lead' and how very true these seemingly paradoxical words are.

Those who do give something back; those who help others, are in my experience invariably far more accomplished than those who don't. I hope to write to some other photographer whom I admire and to see where that gets me. I don't expect much success, but if only one or two offer some assistance, such as editing portfolios or making exhibition selections, then it will have been worth it.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I should mention, I aspire to become a journalist. If I'd photograph / write as a hobby with no ambition of getting a job I wouldn't contact professionals either (I guess).

Could you elaborate? Why ashamed? Also, 'little room' and why you think you compare yourself to the professional by asking him for his opinion? Great points by the way.

martin

Martin,

Easy, my photos ain't good... even if my wife likes them. I photograph because I like the sound of the shutter in my camera, and I like looking at the images I make. The thought that someone may find them good frankly scares me... it'd be too much of a responsibility.

That's why I won't ask anything to a pro, much less an accomplished pro. I'll chat them up, if anything (I learned to make people talk about themselves). And as for asking for criticism... there was a time when I was a fairly well-known published writer in Guatemala (about 20 years ago), and you should have seen the number of wannabes that called me or approached me asking for the secret of success (when I wasn't even that succesful). 😱

There you go. Keep working on it! 🙂 Perspiration and perseverance are a good part of success in any field!