B&H No Longer Shipping Chemistry.

[henryp]

Well they started selling guitars, so likely a much more lucrative product line than Rodinal and Kodak Hypo-Clearing Agent.

Adding a new product brand or a new line or genre whether or not it is "more lucrative" has no bearing n whether or not we will continue to offer darkroom products to the best of our ability and within the limits the law permits.

It is really sad to think that they're putting analog out to dry.

We are NOT "putting analog out to dry." We are conforming to imitations imposed on us by government regulations. We do the same with lithium batteries. I would guess you'd prefer a plane your loved ones were on did not explode due to an unsafe condition in a baggage hold.

the last time I went to the store they were out of something I was intending to get.

Our site will tell you if an item is in stock in our Manhattan store. I urge you to check before jumping into your car.

 

[henryp]

All is well. I spoke with the buyer last night and he said it'll be ready to ship again next week. He didn't explain why, I assume it's policy changes and updates with the shippers.

This is not a determination made by our buyers but by our legal department's compliance team. The items we cannot now ship are, for the most part, class 9 hazardous materiels.

 

[02Pilot]

Henry, do you have a specific list of what photo chemicals class 9 hazmat includes? I'm not able to find one, but from the general descriptions I did find it seems that there are likely to be a fair number of photo chemicals that fall outside the classification.

 

[Gregm61]

Compliance is all about covering ones backside.

That's the bottom line of what going on here. I wonder how Kodak and Ilford gets these products to B&H....by gypsy cab?

 

[Graybeard]

Adding a new product brand or a new line or genre whether or not it is "more lucrative" has no bearing n whether or not we will continue to offer darkroom products to the best of our ability and within the limits the law permits.


We are NOT "putting analog out to dry." We are conforming to imitations imposed on us by government regulations. We do the same with lithium batteries. I would guess you'd prefer a plane your loved ones were on did not explode due to an unsafe condition in a baggage hold.


Henry, if the issue is safety in shipping these materials by air, then don't ship them by air. Use UPS Ground or the like. If you do, there can be no baggage hold issues.

In all the years that I have dealt (happily I might add) with B&H, everything came to me by ground.

 

[x-ray]

I noticed that yesterday. Now my business go to Adorama.

 

[Daryl J.]

If my chemistry has occupied some space in the sky 7 miles up or rides in the back of a Step Van is immaterial to me.

 

[x-ray]

No need to panic. There are plenty of sources to buy from. You can buy raw materials from chemical suppliers like Chemsavers and compound most of your own.

I see it as B&H's loss. Many of us buying chemicals often bought film and paper at the same time not to mention more expensive items. I personally have no interest in buying some items from them and others from another source. I'd rather buy e erything I need at one place. There's nothing magic about B&H.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

ORM-D photo chemicals I purchased recently from other dealers were shipped by FedEx Ground or UPS Ground without problems.

If B&H does not wish to use these methods simply take your business elsewhere. Vote with your feet and wallets!

Chris

 

[sepiareverb]

In the wake of the ValuJet Flight 592 crash on May 11, 1996, the federal government began cracking down on safety regulations for many different chemicals in airplane cargo holds. We don't ship ground so every order has to conform. We elected to observe the safety restrictions scrupulously and the result is a range of chemicals and similar items we cannot ship. Compressed air products like Beseler Duster fall under the same restrictions. We began implementing these restrictions when the government first implemented theirs, several years ago. I am no sure why this has suddenly become an issue.

More recently there have been similar issues with lithium batteries BTW.

Well if Digital Cameras suddenly became 'In Store Pickup Only' I suspect there might be some concern on your part. Although perhaps photography is no longer enough of a portion of your business to make any difference to the bottom line. With selling the guitars and TVs and all...

Just got this from B&H via my email inquiry:

Hello Robert McCann, my name is Jesse G:

Thank you for contacting the Sales Department at B&H Photo Video and Pro Audio.

I am very sorry. We are not shipping any items that require any special shipping instructions. Should shipping regulations chage we may offer to ship these again. I do know that there are still some companies that ship them. But we now only offer to sell this in our store. I am very sorry for any inconvience.

Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

Thank you for choosing B&H.

Jesse G

Sadly, for many of my regular purchases I can no longer choose B&H Jesse G.

...We don't ship ground...

Then why did my order of the day before yesterday, of Microphen and Ilford Multigrade FB paper, ship yesterday via UPS Ground Henry?

Why has apparently every order I've placed with you since 1996 ship Ground? You don't seem to be actually telling the truth according to my experience with your shipping policies over the last 20+ years.

I don't mean to be obnoxious, but having the largest supplier on the east coast of the US suddenly quit selling chemistry is very troubling. I would very much like to get an honest explanation so that I can make informed decisions for keeping supplies in stock that impact my day to day work.

 

[sepiareverb]

No need to panic. There are plenty of sources to buy from. You can buy raw materials from chemical suppliers like Chemsavers and compound most of your own.

Yeah. Just make your own. I've heard this from many folks who don't seem to think that losing a reliable source of known, reliable materials that many of us have used for years and been able to source easily and reliably for years is a problem. This is a dramatic change for many of us. If mixing your own Microphen or Dektol from raw chemistry you can source elsewhere doesn't change your workflow I'm glad for you. For many folks not being able to get D-76 or Fixer might not be such a trivial matter.

I've mixed my own Amidol developer from raw chemicals, made up my own Beers, mixed my own fixers and toners. I prefer to spend 2 minutes doing this and not a half an hour. I prefer getting the developer in house quickly and easily and in one package. I may be a pansy. I might be a whiner. If so, block me now. I don't think having the largest supplier in the US suddenly drop chemistry from their palette is something that shouldn't worry me.

 

[sepiareverb]

ORM-D photo chemicals I purchased recently from other dealers were shipped by FedEx Ground or UPS Ground without problems.

If B&H does not wish to use these methods simply take your business elsewhere. Vote with your feet and wallets!

Chris

We don't have any choice at all, we must let our wallets take the hit. Being unhappy about it isn't really the point, it is the downstream consequences that are most worrisome. The largest supplier to us fools who still use chemistry suddenly dropping their sales by 80 or 90% will impact the manufacturers.

 

[sepiareverb]

In all the years that I have dealt (happily I might add) with B&H, everything came to me by ground.

Exactly. My order placed the evening before last has shipped via UPS GROUND. WTF?



Henry, please don't just pretend you can't use UPS Ground when you have used UPS Ground for everything that I've ordered for the last seven years at the least. There was a time when you used Fed-Ex Ground (also ground...) but then went back to UPS. Yeah, I complained about your using Fed-EX Ground because they wouldn't bring me my packages back then despite having a legitimate address - I had to drive 45 minutes to pick up my delivery - but pretending that you don't ship by UPS Ground actually when you do is just a really pathetic cop-out. Please, give us the real reason you are refusing to sell chemistry to the many LOYAL CUSTOMERS who have purchased from you for decades because we have no local option.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[sepiareverb]

This is not a determination made by our buyers but by our legal department's compliance team. The items we cannot now ship are, for the most part, class 9 hazardous materiels.

Is Acetic Acid included in this list of Class 9 Dangerous Goods???

Commonly Transported Flammable Liquids

Acetone / acetone oils
Adhesives
Paints / lacquers / varnishes
Alcohols
Perfumery products
Gasoline / Petrol
Diesel fuel
Aviation fuel
Liquid bio-fuels
Coal tar / coal tar distillates
Petroleum crude oil
Petroleum distillates
Gas oil
Shale oil
Heating oil
Kerosene
Resins
Tars
Turpentine
Carbamate insecticides
Organochlorine pesticides
Organophosphorus pesticides
Copper based pesticides
Esters
Ethers
Ethanol
Benzene
Butanols
Dichloropropenes
Diethyl ether
Isobutanols
Isopropyls
Methanol
Octanes

Is Ilford DD-X, Powdered Microphen, D-76? on this list?

Commonly Transported Flammable Solids; Spontaneous Combustibles; ‘Dangerous When Wet’ Materials

Alkali metals
Metal powders
Aluminium phosphide
Sodium batteries
Sodium cells
Firelighters
Matches
Calcium carbide
Camphor
Carbon
Activated carbon
Celluloid
Cerium
Copra
Seed cake
Oily cotton waste
Desensitized explosives
Oily fabrics
Oily fibres
Ferrocerium
Iron oxide (spent
Iron sponge/direct-reduced iron (spent)
Metaldehyde
Naphthalene
Nitrocellulose
Phosphorus
Sulphur

Not seeing any of the chemicals in my darkroom on this list either:

Commonly Transported Oxidizers; Organic Peroxides

Chemical oxygen generators
Ammonium nitrate fertilizers
Chlorates
Nitrates
Nitrites
Perchlorates
Permanganates
Persulphates
Aluminium nitrate
Ammonium dichromate
Ammonium nitrate
Ammonium persulphate
Calcium hypochlorite
Calcium nitrate
Calcium peroxide
Hydrogen peroxide
Magnesium peroxide
Lead nitrate
Lithium hypochlorite
Potassium chlorate
Potassium nitrate
Potassium chlorate
Potassium perchlorate
Potassium permanganate
Sodium nitrate
Sodium persulphate

OK, now a few things I recognize from my MSDS:

Commonly Transported Toxic Substances; Infectious Substances

Medical/Biomedical waste
Clinical waste
Biological cultures / samples / specimens
Medical cultures / samples / specimens
Tear gas substances
Motor fuel anti-knock mixture
Dyes
Carbamate pesticides
Alkaloids
Allyls
Acids
Arsenates
Arsenites
Cyanides
Thiols/mercaptans
Cresols
Barium compounds
Arsenics / arsenic compounds
Beryllium/ beryllium compounds
Lead compounds
Mercury compounds
Nicotine / nicotine compounds
Selenium compounds
Antimony
Ammonium metavanadate
Adiponitrile
Chloroform
Dichloromethane
Hexachlorophene
Phenol
Resorcinol


But certainly not the bulk of my materials, and absolutely not the bulk of the photo chemistry for sale.

And here a few more items, but certainly not in concentrations that might be problematic in a package or two or five of photograpic chemistry.

Commonly Transported Corrosives

Acids/acid solutions
Batteries
Battery fluid
Fuel cell cartridges
Dyes
Fire extinguisher charges
Formaldehyde
Flux
Paints
Alkylphenols
Amines
Polyamines
Sulphides
Polysulphides
Chlorides
Chlorosilanes
Bromine
Cyclohexylamine
Phenol / carbolic acid
Hydrofluoric acid
Hydrochloric acid
Sulfuric acid
Nitric acid
Sludge acid
Hydrogen fluoride
Iodine
Morpholine


And here, several things that you seem to be willing to continue to ship, a Lithium-Ion battery, a Drone, magnets. A Lithium-Ion battery is omething that is included in a large number of non-photo-chemical products that you certainly must sell and ship with vastly more frequency than a pack of Microphen.

Commonly Transported Miscellaneous Dangerous Goods

Dry ice / cardice / solid carbon dioxide
Expandable polymeric beads / polystyrene beads
Ammonium nitrate fertilizers
Blue asbestos / crocidolite
Lithium ion batteries
Lithium metal batteries
Battery powered equipment
Battery powered vehicles
Fuel cell engines
Internal combustion engines
Vehicles
Magnetized material
Dangerous goods in apparatus
Dangerous goods in machinery
Genetically modified organisms
Genetically modified micro-organisms
Chemical kits
First aid kits
Life saving appliances
Air bag modules
Seatbelt pretensioners
Plastics moulding compound
Castor bean plant products
Polychlorinated biphenyls
Polychlorinated terphenyls
Dibromodifluoromethane
Benzaldehyde


Really does seem like a pathetic cop-out. Considering that my recent orders (over the last 5 years) have come via UPS Ground, and that you seem to have no problem shipping me a Lithium Ion battery for my M9, I would appreciate hearing the real reason a pack of Perceptol or Kodak Hypo-Clearing Agent is so much more of a problem.

Source: http://www.dgiglobal.com/classes

 

[dmr]

I noticed dyes were on that list.

Somewhat related here maybe. A couple of months ago when I was on a business trip I bought a couple of small bottles of rather hard to find glass dye. I asked if they could ship them instead of me taking them and they said they could not because of hazardous material regulation, etc. I was mainly concerned about one of them breaking or leaking in my checked bag and ruining everything.

So, I went about 1 1/2 blocks away to a UPS store, played dumb, and asked them to pack and ship them. No problem. They just popped them in a big padded bubble pack and sent them on their way. 🙂

 

[x-ray]

I purchase potassium cyanide for collodion work and the chemical supply house sends it FedEx ground with no problem.

Simply buy everything from Adorama or another supplier. Hit them in the wallet and they'll change their tune. What's the big deal with B&H anyway? I've bought from them for years too but I have no loyalty to them. They're many other companies that'd love your business.

 

[sepiareverb]

I went about 1 1/2 blocks away to a UPS store, played dumb, and asked them to pack and ship them. No problem. They just popped them in a big padded bubble pack and sent them on their way. 🙂

It is silly. The reason they cite, that plane crash in the 90s was caused by an exploding tire. But I guess some D-76 could have done the same thing.

With Lithium batteries on the list but still being shipped because they;re in every laptop and phone and digital camera this seems like nothing but a lame excuse.

I purchase potassium cyanide for collodion work and the chemical supply house sends it FedEx ground with no problem.

Simply buy everything from Adorama or another supplier. Hit them in the wallet and they'll change their tune. What's the big deal with B&H anyway? I've bought from them for years too but I have no loyalty to them. They're many other companies that'd love your business.

Adorama will take your money and then let you know the item is backordered. Sorry, we can ship it in a few weeks when it comes back in stock. Not an acceptable supplier, and it has happened many times to me. I learned that if B&H is out of stock it is a 90% surety that Adorama is too, but they won't let you know. Yes, I can get things from Freestyle or FotoImpex, at a sometimes considerable premium but always at a considerably longer delivery time. And they will charge for shipping atop that premium. Yeah, I'm bitching about having to spend more money to stand still. Sorry.

I will be able to re-configure my stocking schedule, but I'm most concerned about the downstream effects that the largest supplier now selling 5% the volume of something will have on our manufacturers. Not everyone will decide it's fine to get their LPD or LFN at a 20% higher price (including shipping), and margins in this industry seem really tight already.

But I can always compound my own. I do know how to do that. Guess I've been stupidly relying on others to do something that really isn't any trouble at all for decades.

 

[sepiareverb]

Adding a new product brand or a new line or genre whether or not it is "more lucrative" has no bearing n whether or not we will continue to offer darkroom products to the best of our ability and within the limits the law permits.

The law seems to not be a problem with ground shipping, which you clearly do use to my, and others here, addresses. Why the obfuscation?


(note the date, 11/22/16, and the Service: UPS Ground)

We are NOT "putting analog out to dry." We are conforming to imitations imposed on us by government regulations. We do the same with lithium batteries. I would guess you'd prefer a plane your loved ones were on did not explode due to an unsafe condition in a baggage hold.

You clearly do not do the same with Lithium batteries:



As a loyal customer since 1985 (first at 17th Street, and mail order since 1995) I would appreciate some honesty.

Our site will tell you if an item is in stock in our Manhattan store. I urge you to check before jumping into your car.

Well, the 6 hour drive makes that less than perfect, but I will. If Freestyle and FotoImpex are out of stock.

 

[x-ray]

I guess we need to post a thread of suppliers we can buy darkroom supplies from. Who wants to start one?

If you're unhappy go on twitter, Facebook and every photo forum you can think of and post your grevences. Convince customers to buy elsewhere because B&H has no loyalty to their customers.

I don't like losing a supplier but I can deal with it by going elsewhere. It's all about money to them. Others ship ground and they can too. They're simply not making enough money is my guess.

 

[sepiareverb]

Henry, do you have a specific list of what photo chemicals class 9 hazmat includes? I'm not able to find one, but from the general descriptions I did find it seems that there are likely to be a fair number of photo chemicals that fall outside the classification.

My reading of the list and my MSDS sheets makes me agree.