best way to get black and white with A7R?

goo0h

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I'm renting an A7R to try it out with some of my m-mount lenses. What's the best way to produce black and white images from this camera? Use a creative style within the camera, or something like Lightroom?

Thanks.
 
I'm renting an A7R to try it out with some of my m-mount lenses. What's the best way to produce black and white images from this camera? Use a creative style within the camera, or something like Lightroom?

Thanks.

What post processing software do you use now? I'd shoot RAW and do the PP myself to ensure I had complete control over the process rather than a camera engineer's program.
 
What post processing software do you use now? I'd shoot RAW and do the PP myself to ensure I had complete control over the process rather than a camera engineer's program.

Well, I'm still primarily a film shooter, and honestly don't mess much with scans I get back from the lab. ;-) I've never been a huge fan of post processing, so what ever I end up doing has to largely be hassle free....
 
If you want hassle free, stick to Tri X, in digital, remember to expose without clipping the highlights, while not underexposing too much - shoot RAW only and look at the histograms as you shoot and progress. Afterwards you will see how much PP you need according to your preferences.
 
Why not use RAW+jpg and set the jpg to B&W - best of both worlds. You get a B&W with no hassle and if you want something different, you still have the (color!) RAW. Just don't use colored B&W filters on your lenses.
 
I say shoot Raw with the camera set to show B&W in the EVF. (You might have to we raw+jpg to do this). I prefer to convert digital to B&W with Nik Silver Efex pro. But you could do it in Lightroom as well.

One of the advantages to using B&W in the EVF is that focus peak highlights are easier to see. Definitely enhances the manual focus experience.
 
Expose for the highlights. The a7r's shadow space is 3-4x greater than the highlight space; it is a common feature of digital cameras.

I use Silver EFEX and the occasional film present from DXO filmpack.
 
There is no best way. There are many ways of rendering to B&W with a digital camera, and there's whatever way gets you the results you want while being the workflow you want to use.

The easiest way is to use the in-camera JPEG engine with their controls for rendering B&W. The A7/r has a decent JPEG engine with B&W rendering output that is controllable for curve, etc.

Set the camera to record full-resolution JPEG + raw as that gives you more options later. If you get involved with digital capture, you'll want to get more involved with image processing. Unlike working with scanned film, there's a whole heck of a lot more adjustability and goodness to be had with digital captures and raw files.

The A7r will work ok with most Leica M lenses 40mm and longer in focal length. Shorter focal lengths often have issues, but some work very well. In particular, the Tri-Elmar lenses (WATE and MATE) seem to be a godsend for wide, but the price is high. I find SLR lenses work best in the shorter focal lengths with these cameras.

G
 
If you want simple (and good and flexible), Silver Efect Pro 2 comes highly recommended. With a high res A7R, I'm a bit surprised you don't want to learn a bit of post processing, because there's no point in 36MP if the image processing is no good. Lightroom is amazing and was the only program to lure me away from the darkroom. I hate Photoshop with a passion.

Silver Efex will, however, give you some simple 'one click' solutions and the ability to achieve different looks and toning, also with one click. Alien Skin and DxO Filmpack are good alternatives. Once you understand how your A7R files convert in a given program (say, by using the TriX or FP4+ simulation) you will get a good feel for which to use under which conditions. They all have quite different contrast curves and whereas we would make adjustments in printing when using film, you can instead choose a different film profile in Silver efex to better match the contrast and tones of the original capture.
 
For this shot i used the Gorman method http://www.blackandwhitedigital.com/Convert/luminosity/gorman.html

VC28F2 Ultron on A7

DSC00942%20copy-XL.jpg
 
If you want simple (and good and flexible), Silver Efect Pro 2 comes highly recommended. With a high res A7R, I'm a bit surprised you don't want to learn a bit of post processing, because there's no point in 36MP if the image processing is no good. Lightroom is amazing and was the only program to lure me away from the darkroom. I hate Photoshop with a passion.

Just got Lightroom and am going to fiddle with it. Thanks for the info!

Though, after looking at this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...iew/sony-a7-series-which-model-suits-you-best

I'm kind of wondering if maybe the A7S, albeit at a lower-level resolution, might be nicer for converting images to b/w because of it's apparent broader dynamic range?
 
The A7R has such flexible files you can do whatever you want with them, plus you have wonderful resolution when you need it. Unless you are shooting video a lot or shoot black cats in coal cellars at night, the A7S is perhaps not the best choice IMHO. The regular A7 is the often overlooked great all rounder.

As an experienced B&W wet printer, I feel very confident saying that the beauty of B&W lies in the subtleties. Understanding tonal relationships is key. It is not about tones in the absolute sense, but how they interact with each other within a given image and in relation to paper white/mountboard/lighting that will take a traditional or digital printer to the next level. The difference between a 'digital looking an in your face B&W image' and a beautiful one that leaves you agape can surprise you in its subtlety. Sadly, there are no easy shortcuts to mastering this.

Rather than consider different cameras, I would spend as much time as you possibly can looking at beautiful prints to understand those relationships. Years ago I chose to work with the master printer Robin Bell, in London. Seeing his prints, from my negatives, transformed my own printing. Now, whenever I get the chance, I spend time around beautiful prints - you can even learn a lot from the very best book reproductions.

Many current photographers with no history in B&W darkroom work produce nasty images IMHO, because they have little interaction with the end product: prints! If you can afford it, I would select some of your very best B&W images and then sit down with a talented printer and work towards the best possible prints. You'll learn more in a day than five years looking at images on computer screens. As expensive as it may seem, it will also save you a fortune in scrap images going forwards. If you don't want to spend lots of time processing images, but are happy to spend the money on prints, getting your files 'close' then using a superb printer (person) to make the final product makes a lot of sense.


...
I'm kind of wondering if maybe the A7S, albeit at a lower-level resolution, might be nicer for converting images to b/w because of it's apparent broader dynamic range?
 
The A7R has such flexible files you can do whatever you want with them, plus you have wonderful resolution when you need it. Unless you are shooting video a lot or shoot black cats in coal cellars at night, the A7S is perhaps not the best choice IMHO. The regular A7 is the often overlooked great all rounder.

As an experienced B&W wet printer, I feel very confident saying that the beauty of B&W lies in the subtleties. Understanding tonal relationships is key. It is not about tones in the absolute sense, but how they interact with each other within a given image and in relation to paper white/mountboard/lighting that will take a traditional or digital printer to the next level. The difference between a 'digital looking an in your face B&W image' and a beautiful one that leaves you agape can surprise you in its subtlety. Sadly, there are no easy shortcuts to mastering this.

Rather than consider different cameras, I would spend as much time as you possibly can looking at beautiful prints to understand those relationships. Years ago I chose to work with the master printer Robin Bell, in London. Seeing his prints, from my negatives, transformed my own printing. Now, whenever I get the chance, I spend time around beautiful prints - you can even learn a lot from the very best book reproductions.

Many current photographers with no history in B&W darkroom work produce nasty images IMHO, because they have little interaction with the end product: prints! If you can afford it, I would select some of your very best B&W images and then sit down with a talented printer and work towards the best possible prints. You'll learn more in a day than five years looking at images on computer screens. As expensive as it may seem, it will also save you a fortune in scrap images going forwards. If you don't want to spend lots of time processing images, but are happy to spend the money on prints, getting your files 'close' then using a superb printer (person) to make the final product makes a lot of sense.

Robin Bell is brilliant I manged to pick up his book last year, I'm hoping to go on a wet printing coarse with Dave Butcher in the next few months
 
The A7R has such flexible files you can do whatever you want with them, plus you have wonderful resolution when you need it. Unless you are shooting video a lot or shoot black cats in coal cellars at night, the A7S is perhaps not the best choice IMHO. The regular A7 is the often overlooked great all rounder. As an experienced B&W wet printer, I feel very confident saying that the beauty of B&W lies in the subtleties. Understanding tonal relationships is key. It is not about tones in the absolute sense, but how they interact with each other within a given image and in relation to paper white/mountboard/lighting that will take a traditional or digital printer to the next level. The difference between a 'digital looking an in your face B&W image' and a beautiful one that leaves you agape can surprise you in its subtlety. Sadly, there are no easy shortcuts to mastering this. Rather than consider different cameras, I would spend as much time as you possibly can looking at beautiful prints to understand those relationships. Years ago I chose to work with the master printer Robin Bell, in London. Seeing his prints, from my negatives, transformed my own printing. Now, whenever I get the chance, I spend time around beautiful prints - you can even learn a lot from the very best book reproductions. Many current photographers with no history in B&W darkroom work produce nasty images IMHO, because they have little interaction with the end product: prints! If you can afford it, I would select some of your very best B&W images and then sit down with a talented printer and work towards the best possible prints. You'll learn more in a day than five years looking at images on computer screens. As expensive as it may seem, it will also save you a fortune in scrap images going forwards. If you don't want to spend lots of time processing images, but are happy to spend the money on prints, getting your files 'close' then using a superb printer (person) to make the final product makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful response!
 
Sorry, my post is not going to be much good without photos ...

I had a chance to play with an A7 with the 35mm a few weeks ago ( currently use a Leica M7 , and M240 ) and shot a a number of frames with JPEG settings in black and white , with the contrast dialed up 2 and the sharpness dialed down 2 . It was outside early evening with the light slowly dimming so I was shooting a fairly high ISO trying to capture my kids running around .

I was really taken with the output of the files, almost Tri-x film like in their tonal range . Made me want an A7 !

You can see a selection at this Blog post.

http://www.james-thorpe.squarespace.com/blog/2014/8/19/happy-birthday-zac-1

James
 
Sorry, my post is not going to be much good without photos ... I had a chance to play with an A7 with the 35mm a few weeks ago ( currently use a Leica M7 , and M240 ) and shot a a number of frames with JPEG settings in black and white , with the contrast dialed up 2 and the sharpness dialed down 2 . It was outside early evening with the light slowly dimming so I was shooting a fairly high ISO trying to capture my kids running around . I was really taken with the output of the files, almost Tri-x film like in their tonal range . Made me want an A7 ! You can see a selection at this Blog post. http://www.james-thorpe.squarespace.com/blog/2014/8/19/happy-birthday-zac-1 James

Thanks for the post! These are really nice shots, and I can see it being useful shooting JPG+RAW in this manner to get a preview, or for quick posts.

In the end I did buy Lightroom and that Silver Efex Pro stuff that Google acquired. I'm not sure I'd ever become a master printer, but I was pretty amazed at what could be achieved.

Now just to decide on what Sony to get. 😉
 
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