Tom A
RFF Sponsor
My standard developer for Acros is Beutler in 1:1:10 dilution for 7 minutes.
I havent tried the APH-09 so I wouldn;t know if it is the same, but I suspect that it is a Rodinal derivative.
I very rarely use "store" bought developers as I prefer making my own. Exception being HC 110/Rodinal as they are a bit messy to make.
Tom
Fotohuis
Well-known
APH09 is Calbe R09.
Rodinal just changed by name to R09 one shot "made in Germany" due to the Trade mark Agfa and maybe the Rodinal license name by Lupus.
Also Foma changed (since halfway 2008) from R09 to Rodinal, called Fomadon R09 (new). Rounded corner bottles is the new type.
You can also see it on the color and the dilutions: 1+25 - 1+50 - 1+100.
Pre-WWII R09 (Calbe) is 1+20 - 1+40 - 1+80 in dulution. This R09 last about 1 1/2 - 2 years in the bottle while Rodinal last for at least 10 years.
Important is to know what you get.
Best regards,
Robert
Rodinal just changed by name to R09 one shot "made in Germany" due to the Trade mark Agfa and maybe the Rodinal license name by Lupus.
Also Foma changed (since halfway 2008) from R09 to Rodinal, called Fomadon R09 (new). Rounded corner bottles is the new type.
You can also see it on the color and the dilutions: 1+25 - 1+50 - 1+100.
Pre-WWII R09 (Calbe) is 1+20 - 1+40 - 1+80 in dulution. This R09 last about 1 1/2 - 2 years in the bottle while Rodinal last for at least 10 years.
Important is to know what you get.
Best regards,
Robert
larmarv916
Well-known
Thanks Tom & Fotohuis for the background info related to the difference between these products. Not to sound like a dork but if you could pass on the basic formula, Iam willing to give "Beutler" a try. I use the "massive Dev. chart"and do not remeber finding it listed. thanks again for the help.
Best Regards...Laurance
Best Regards...Laurance
Fotohuis
Well-known
In this treat usefull developing data is from Tom. In the "massive Dev. chart" you can find under Beutler some other usefull developing table.
The Beutler formula:
Solution A:
1g Metol
5g Sodiumsulfite (sicc.)
fill up till 100ml with demi water.
Solution B:
5g Sodiumcabonate sicc.
fill up till 100ml with demi water.
Instead of Sodiumcarbonate sicc. you can use 14,6g household soda (decahydrate) In this version 10.H20 crystal is build in. Sodiumcarbonate sicc. is a fine dry white powder while 10.H20. Na2CO3 are bigger crystals with moisture.
Dilution normally 1+1+8: e.g. 25+25 fill up till 250ml.
Making from scratch it's a very simple and cheap developer.
The Beutler formula:
Solution A:
1g Metol
5g Sodiumsulfite (sicc.)
fill up till 100ml with demi water.
Solution B:
5g Sodiumcabonate sicc.
fill up till 100ml with demi water.
Instead of Sodiumcarbonate sicc. you can use 14,6g household soda (decahydrate) In this version 10.H20 crystal is build in. Sodiumcarbonate sicc. is a fine dry white powder while 10.H20. Na2CO3 are bigger crystals with moisture.
Dilution normally 1+1+8: e.g. 25+25 fill up till 250ml.
Making from scratch it's a very simple and cheap developer.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just posted some stuff on Flickr with Beutler. I did 10 rolls of XX and developed 5 in HC 110, dilution 1:60 (from raw syrup) for 11 min and 5 rolls with Beutler 1:1:8 for 11 min (that is my time for XX/XXX and Beutler). The Beutler gave me about 3/4 stop more speed - around 400 asa.
I will try later today with another 5 rolls of XX at the 1:1:10 dilution and see how that works.
Grain with faster films get quite aggressive in Beutler - easy to focus on in the enlarger though!
I will try later today with another 5 rolls of XX at the 1:1:10 dilution and see how that works.
Grain with faster films get quite aggressive in Beutler - easy to focus on in the enlarger though!
larmarv916
Well-known
Thanks for the Formula....I will try and whip up a batch and see how it works. I may come back and ask for suggestion about times based on film types. Thanks again for the help"Fotohuis" and Tom. All the Best...Laurance
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Did another batch of film, 3 Acros 100 in Beutler 1:1:10/7 min - looks good. Also 5 rolls of Double X (rated @ 250) - nice grey scale - maybe a 1/2 stop off here and there, but as it was shot as "sunny f16" the fault is mine - not the developer/film combo.
Check Flickr if interested.
Check Flickr if interested.
Tonality
Newbie
Shelf Life
Shelf Life
Hey Tom, Just wondering how long Beutler not mixed will last ie. part A and part B in separate bottles. Thanks Mark
Shelf Life
Hey Tom, Just wondering how long Beutler not mixed will last ie. part A and part B in separate bottles. Thanks Mark
Fotohuis
Well-known
I expect pretty long because Metol + Sulfite (A) and a concentrated Sodiumcarbonate (B) solutions in demi water is harmless. I am running a test on this now.
Fotohuis
Well-known
6 months in a (small) full bottle is not any problem for the Beutler life span. When half filled, it must be finished within 2-3 months.
I got a new, better and cheaper supply for the Sodiumcarbonate Decahydrate. The Action in Holland supplies Tricel, Deca Hydrate Soda (household) for 0,70 €ct / kg.
Indeed ..... 1001 possibilities ......
I got a new, better and cheaper supply for the Sodiumcarbonate Decahydrate. The Action in Holland supplies Tricel, Deca Hydrate Soda (household) for 0,70 €ct / kg.
Indeed ..... 1001 possibilities ......
Nokton48
Veteran
Beutler's High Definition Developer #105
Solution A
Water (125F/52C) 750 ml
Metol 10 gm
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous 50 gm
Cold water to make 1.0 liter
Solution B
Water (125F/52C) 750 ml
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated 50 gm
Cold water to make 1.0 liter
Mix 1 part A, 1 part B, and 10 parts water.
Develop 7-10 minutes at 68F/20C.
Solution A
Water (125F/52C) 750 ml
Metol 10 gm
Sodium Sulphite, anhydrous 50 gm
Cold water to make 1.0 liter
Solution B
Water (125F/52C) 750 ml
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated 50 gm
Cold water to make 1.0 liter
Mix 1 part A, 1 part B, and 10 parts water.
Develop 7-10 minutes at 68F/20C.
MrFujicaman
Well-known
The cheapest source of sodium carbonate I've found is Aqua Chem's "Ph Up" for swimming pools. it's a 4 pound container and sells for around $5 at
Walmart in swimming pool season. Generally, any hardware store in an area with pools will have it.
Walmart in swimming pool season. Generally, any hardware store in an area with pools will have it.
Tri House
Newbie
I just developed two strip test of T-Max 100 and Neopan Acros 100. Both films were shot as nominal 100 ISO, in grey-tone nature (avoid to be mistaken with exposure). T-Max 100 was developed in 1+1+8 dilution, 8:30 min. Acros 100 was developed in 1+1+10, 7 min. Both tests have well-detailed tones and fine detail, but look very grey as 2-stops underexposed. (Of course, they can be lifted to fine condition by curve or levels.) Exp +1 or +2 make negatives more dense (and more bright positive scan), but the negatives have the same very grey look as +2-stop under-exposed. Therefore, I conclude that the grey look of the negatives originate not from underexposure.
I therefore would ask Tom and Peter, the experts in Beutler, for a courtesy. Upload raw scans of your T-Max and Acros negatives, without post-development. I mean that everything of photographs at Flickr Beuter A+B Group looks fine. But it is unclear whether they are close to originally raw scans or were substantially lifted in Photoshop. I sure other people would be as well curios to see originally raw scans of negatives developed in Beutler. Do it for all us, please.
I therefore would ask Tom and Peter, the experts in Beutler, for a courtesy. Upload raw scans of your T-Max and Acros negatives, without post-development. I mean that everything of photographs at Flickr Beuter A+B Group looks fine. But it is unclear whether they are close to originally raw scans or were substantially lifted in Photoshop. I sure other people would be as well curios to see originally raw scans of negatives developed in Beutler. Do it for all us, please.
Fotohuis
Well-known
Take care when making the Beutler. To prevent an early oxidation when making it just dissolve a little bit Sodiumsulfite first and then the Metol completely. Then the additional Sodiumsulfite. Otherwise you maybe end with a partial exhausted developer, just before starting development.
Beutler is working as a normal, a little bit low contrast type developer hence the good results of the Rollei Superpan 200/Rollei Retro 400S (same emulsion, Agfa Gevaert Aviphot 200 E1, made in Belgium, aviation type film 100um hence E1) a more contrastly type of B&W film.
Further the combo Efke 25/Rollei Pan 25/Adox CHS 25 is very good. Fortunately I still have some stock of this nice single layer orthopan iso 25 film. With Acros 100 E.I. 80 my combo with R09/Rodinal 1+50 is better.
For really contrastly type films you can exchange the Sodiumcarbonate (Soda) by Sodiumbicarbonate (Baking Soda). In fact you are making then TDLC-103 a low contrast type developer. However the Baking Soda is less stable so the lifespan of this receipt is very limited. I did some Rollei ATP1.1 films with it. Apart from the low iso (6-12) reasonable results with this Agfa Gevaert micro film type.
Beutler is working as a normal, a little bit low contrast type developer hence the good results of the Rollei Superpan 200/Rollei Retro 400S (same emulsion, Agfa Gevaert Aviphot 200 E1, made in Belgium, aviation type film 100um hence E1) a more contrastly type of B&W film.
Further the combo Efke 25/Rollei Pan 25/Adox CHS 25 is very good. Fortunately I still have some stock of this nice single layer orthopan iso 25 film. With Acros 100 E.I. 80 my combo with R09/Rodinal 1+50 is better.
For really contrastly type films you can exchange the Sodiumcarbonate (Soda) by Sodiumbicarbonate (Baking Soda). In fact you are making then TDLC-103 a low contrast type developer. However the Baking Soda is less stable so the lifespan of this receipt is very limited. I did some Rollei ATP1.1 films with it. Apart from the low iso (6-12) reasonable results with this Agfa Gevaert micro film type.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Straight scan - Acros 100 and Beutler1:1:10, 7.30 min. Slight contrast drop (about 10%). It would have worked fine at 7 min too.
Tri House
Newbie
Straight scan - Acros 100 and Beutler1:1:10, 7.30 min. Slight contrast drop (about 10%). It would have worked fine at 7 min too.
Thank you very much. It very, very differs from that I got on Acros 100. I just got a reply from Robert. He guessed that I have exhausted developer due to some errors in its preparation (so that the developer can exhaust even if just cooked). I will investigate this problem more. Thank you for your time.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Tmax 100 (at 100 iso), Beutler 1:1:10. 6.5 min. The Tmax 100 is (was) a bit fiddly and it is very sensitive to agitation - less is more than enough. I also do prewash for one minute.
Tri House
Newbie
Tmax 100 (at 100 iso), Beutler 1:1:10. 6.5 min. The Tmax 100 is (was) a bit fiddly and it is very sensitive to agitation - less is more than enough. I also do prewash for one minute.
Thank you, again. So-o-o different from my grey result. I will study more this subject.
Fotohuis
Well-known
Acros 100 in R09/Rodinal.
Somewhere I must have about the same type of scenes and film developed in Beutler 1+1+10.
I think I have to re-scan something.
Tri House
Newbie
Acros 100 in R09/Rodinal.
Somewhere I must have about the same type of scenes and film developed in Beutler 1+1+10.
I think I have to re-scan something.
If these are originally raw scans, they are almost excellently balanced for post-development. No need to look at histogram, to say this. Thank you for the provided examples.