Blade Runner Blues

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Hjortsberg

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Hello,

I've been lurking here for about a month waiting for my registration to be approved. I've mostly been using the search function to research.

Over the years I've taken a few pictures here and there (no darkroom experience), mostly with a Pentax K1000 and a Nikon FM (?). I've always wanted a Lecia. I guess I 've always taken "street photography" photos although I was unaware of the term and art form until recently.

This year I've decided to get a Leica. I've decided to get the M3 for various reasons: don't give a hoot about digital; don't want an on-board light meter; want a fully manuel camera; only care about using a 50mm lens; not interested in flash photography and some others reasons that I've forgotten this late at night after working 18 hours straight.

I was inspired by a wonderful and eloquent piece on the internet called The Leica as teacher and I'd like to try the exercise. I'm a simple guy. I'm not really that smart and, in life, I usually have to work incredibly hard to end up being simply mediocre at something. No big deal. I get by.

So where to find a M3? Like I said I've used the search function on this site researching "trusted sellers." I've found Tmarkin Camera, Geroge Ury, KHM, some shops in New York (Photo Village?). Ebay is simply out of the question. I don't know enough to venture out into E-prey. Same goes for the classifieds on this site. So, all the above outfits got about 50% good reviews and 50% bad reviews. I don't know enough to call any of these guys on the phone and ask them questions: I don't even know what questions to ask.

Better to handle a Leica M3 in person. So I'll go to the biggest monthly camera show in America here in Pasadena, California. And that was a bust.

I'm extremely polite and very respectful of people's time. I don't interrupt or barge into a dealer's conversation with a buyer. If a dealer is with a customer, I politely wait my turn. And I found the camera show very difficult. Dealers seemed to become angry with me when I didn't know the exact (fill in whatever technical mumbo-jumbo words here) about the M3. I tried my best to explain that I was a novice but it fell on deaf ears. More then once.

So what am I to do? I'm going to get my M3 and shoot film. Do I just pick up a dart and throw it at an online seller that has some good reviews and some bad ones?

Thanks for listening
 
Hi,

Welcome to RFF! It sounds like you've thought it through and are driven to a particular course of action. See it through in your own way.

It sounds like it was Mike Johnson's piece you read about the Leica being a teacher. If you read that then you'll have seen that you can probably turn around and sell your Leica if things don't work out.

But they will. Buy from a trusted supplier like KEH, Adorama or Leica Shop in Vienna, Austria. I feel sure you'll want to keep it for as long as you take pictures.

Good luck, and post up some photos when you have them.
 
Is there any RFF member anywhere near who can let you handle a Leica? If the dealers/sellers thought you were a time-waster, perhaps some of their irritation is rational. If they were just being unpleasant, well, you don't want to buy from people like that anyway.

Try some more reading on the subject of Leicas. You say you don't know what questions to ask. Well, that makes it hard for us to answer them. There just isn't that much, technically, to know about a Leica: wind-on, rewind, shutter speed setting, loading. Oh, all right: self-timer and frame preview lever. Put a lens on and there's focusing and apertures. Do you understand all that? If not, which bits do you need help with?

What sort of thing to do want to know? You might (or might not) find the following of interest, written by someone who's been using Leicas for 40+ years, since he was 19: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Is there any RFF member anywhere near who can let you handle a Leica? If the dealers/sellers thought you were a time-waster, perhaps some of their irritation is rational. If they were just being unpleasant, well, you don't want to buy from people like that anyway.

Try some more reading on the subject of Leicas. You say you don't know what questions to ask. Well, that makes it hard for us to answer them. There just isn't that much, technically, to know about a Leica: wind-on, rewind, shutter speed setting, loading. Oh, all right: self-timer and frame preview lever. Put a lens on and there's focusing and apertures. Do you understand all that? If not, which bits do you need help with?

What sort of thing to do want to know? You might (or might not) find the following of interest, written by someone who's been using Leicas for 40+ years, since he was 19: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html

Cheers,

R.
Click to expand...

thank you for the link.

here's a question:

I have read (on the internet) it is better to get a M3 with s/n closer to 1,000,00. Why? Are they that much better built then s/n's in the 800,000 - 950,000?

I don't much care if the camera is SS or DS. Or should I care if I were better educated?
 
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Hjortsberg said:
thank you for the link.

here's a question:

I have read (on the internet) it is better to get a M3 with s/n closer to 1,000,00. Why? Are they that much better built then s/n's in the 800,000 - 950,000?

I don't much care if the camera is SS or DS. Or should I care if I were better educated?
Click to expand...

Serial numbers: I've only ever seen that on the internet too. With a camera that's 50 years old, condition (how hard it's been used, how long it's been unused) matter far more than serial numbers. That's assuming they mean anything at all. I'm not sure they do.

SS/DS: personally I find SS VASTLY easier to use, as with a DS I'll think I've wound on and then find I've only done half a job. This may be pure habituation on my part, but equally, the fact that Leica changed it suggests to me that they thought a single wind was better too. The purpose of the DS was to slow down winding and reduce the risk of static. When they found their fears were groundless, they changed it.

Later cameras also have a metal pressure plate instead of glass (probably trivial, but I'm happier with metal) and, as far as recall, very early cameras had the old shutter speed sequence of 1 - 1/2 - 1/5 - 1/10 - 1/25 - 1/50 instead of 1 - 1/2 - 1/4 - 1/8 etc. Again, trivial, but I prefer the later, more rational sequence, which also matches modern exposure meters.

Cheers,

R.
 
I shoot an M3 and 50mm, and love it. Just the act of putting it up to my eye, is similar to the feeling of putting on a comfortable glove.

Given you mentioned your street-shooting intentions, I would suggest however that you consider whether you will use a 35mm lens (or wider), as the M3 will not allow you to shoot anything wider than a 50mm lenses without lenses with goggles, or external viewfinders.

As much as I love my M3 and 50mm, it is always my M4 and 35mm I turn to when doing any street shooting. A 35mm (and wider) will allow you to set your lens to a low f-stop like f11, and set the focus point so that everything from a few feet to infinity will be in focus. Combined with pre-emptive exposure setting, you really can turn your M into a very effective point and shoot, allowing you to focus more on composition and other key elements in the rapidly changing environment that is street shooting.

When I got my first M, an M6, I immediately paired it with a 50mm lens, but it was not long before I added a 35mm lens for all the above reasons. Just bear this in mind, as with an M3, your options to add a 35mm at a later date are much more limited, due to that beautiful high magnification viewfinder that makes it so perfect for a 50mm lens.

If you are set on an M3, also be aware of the seperation issues the M3 viewfinder can be prone to. I have not seen this myself, but was quite careful when buying my M3. These issues are fixable, and there are companies who will repair an M3 viewfinder suffering from seperation, but it is a moderately expensive repair (£200- £300 approx.), making it a worthwhile check to make before you buy.

Re: purchasing, given it is your first M, I would recommend purchasing from a trusted seller/ dealer. There are some great pieces of kit to be had from used sellers, and would recommend places like the classifieds section here, but really only after you feel comfortable that you know enough to ensure you are satisfied to do so.

Whatever M you choose, you will enjoy it. Don't forget to consider a small handheld meter, if you are going for a meterless M. I use a small Sekonic L-208 Twinmate, and find it a gem.

EDIT: Re-reading the above, it would seem I am scaring you off considering an M3. I really love shooting mine, and it is hands down the camera I love to shoot with most.
 
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Another piece of advice, triggered by Damien's observations. I much prefer lenses with a focusing tab (like my 35 Summilux) or at least a nub (like most current Zeiss lenses) as this provides a tactile indicator of the focused point.

Unlike many on this forum (surprisingly many, to me), I don't normally use hyperfocal settings, but prefer to focus. With lenses like this, I know from experience where to set the tab/nub, so the camera is very close to focused when it arrives at my eye.

And since Damien has raised the point, I no longer own any M3s because I like 35mm too. But you said you'd already decided firmly on an M3, so I didn't mention it before.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger raises a good point. Focussing tabs can be quite useful, and allow you to set your focus point approximately, without taking your eyes from what you are looking at. The infinity locks on older lenses can serve as effective focussing aids also, for lenses that predate focussing tabs.
 
KEH.....lots of dealings with them and they are tops with fair prices. I prefer the M2 for its simplicity. I have an M6 and an M4p and the M2 gets used the most.
 
I don't want to talk you out of buying a Leica, but maybe you should also consider a Bessa R3m: very nice viewfinder with a single 50mm frame, fully mechanical, and it is not tens of years old -- can even be bought new. It's probably not even more expensive.

It has a meter, though. If that really bothers you, just don't put batteries in.
 
Call Will or Rich at PhotoVillage. They'll sort you out. Seriously. KEH is great, but it's such a huge 'machine.' Huge warehouse and shelves upon shelves of cameras. The salesman you may speak to has no contact with what gets picked from the shelf and shipped to you. That said, they do rate their stuff well, and there's a nice return policy. But, with PhotoVillage, the person you speak to will be 12" from the cabinet when you're speaking with him. It's a small 'Leica Boutique' with very fair prices - not an elitist 'posh shoppe.'

Good luck to you.

Regards,
Pris
 
+1 on KEH...I live in the Atlanta area and have dealt with them many times. They have a great return policy if you are not happy with the purchase.

I love my M3!:)

BTW, where are YOU located?
 
I think you mentioned you were in Pasadena, California in your initial post.
If you're in Pasadena, there are a few folks on RFF out there. You could put out some feelers and see if some of those folks would care to get together.
If in the LA area, you can stop by Samy's to get a feel for the camera itself. I'm a fan of OC Camera down in Mission Viejo.
If you decide to go the internet route, KEH does have fantastic gear. i bought my M4 from them, sight unseen, for just over $1200 back in 2004 when I was in Fallujah, Iraq. They packed it up exactly as I asked (the whole package looked like a small refrigerator could fit inside) and the camera got to me in perfect shape.
A shop which I trust explicitly is Bergen County Camera in northern New Jersey. Paul is the guy to talk to. If he doesn't have an M3 right now, he'll personally email you when he gets one in.
Another great shop in the northeast is Lens and Repro in Manhattan. I don't think they have their stock online but they are the nicest folks on the phone and in person.
Regardless, there are plenty of Leicas out there and a lot of them happen to be M3s simply because they hold up to use over time and so many were made.
Welcome and good luck!

Phil Forrest
 
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