Brooks Photography School Closing: Shattered Dreams

Higher education with the seeming "need" of a degree,
is a wild card.
A huge investment, as schools are business orientated, not arts.
It holds the lucky few in bondage as they repay their loans.
Few really great photographers had any degree.
My late Mom steered me to a hands on craft.
I was able to change not just jobs, but nations and continents.
Photography fitted in as needed.
I practiced whichever made the most at the time!
My photography was all self taught.
I gave photo workshops, cost underwritten by South Africa's "apartheid" govt. n a preparedness for democratic change.

My advice get a trade, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and re-modelling.
It will be a better investment, than any arts or business degree .
You earn while you learn.
 
leicapixie said:
My advice get a trade, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and re-modelling.
It will be a better investment, than any arts or business degree .
You earn while you learn.
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I'm not so sure. I went to art school and make more money and seemingly have an easier life than many friends in the manual labor fields. I would imagine a business degree opens up more doors than any other degree... what's behind those doors might be boring, but...

And, I would imagine you have to take into account where you live too.
 
"How did this thread go so off kilter?"

"How did this thread go so off kilter?"

Good question, Farly.

Ostensibly, it is about the unfortunate, decades long decline and death of one of the USA's premier photography schools:

Did any of the previous 62 posts, other than mine, come from someone who actually attended Brooks?
SaveKodak had first hand experience at SIU (excellent program I have often heard)

I started at Brooks in its zenith, the 1970s, not as a recent high school graduate but rather after an A.B. in English lit, a tour as a Captain in the U.S. Air Force and ten years as an avid amateur photographer. I had read all the books available at local libraries. I had gone through six years of subscriptions to Popular, Modern and Camera 35. I had annoyed local professionals with questions, some of which were not inane .

Upon arrival at Brooks I felt confident that I knew a good deal about photography and was just there to "polish the edges."

Turns out, I was Self-Taught but , as such I had a "teacher" who didn't know any more than I did.

Looking back after the first semester I realized I hadn't known squat and much of what I did know was wrong.

Assignments, critiques and interaction with like minded colleagues were integral and vital parts of the learning experience.

Photography school, like most professional education, provides a quick way to become competent and, where desired or required, provides a punched ticket that can open that first door.
I have done nothing but photography in one capacity or another since 1974.

Is it best for everyone? No.
Are some institutions better than others? Yes.
I can only say Brooks was life changing for me.
 
leicapixie said:
My advice get a trade, carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and re-modelling.
It will be a better investment, than any arts or business degree .
You earn while you learn.
Click to expand...

Maybe 40 years ago, definitely not today. With few exceptions labour jobs pay poorly and country specific regulations virtually ensure you'll only ever be able to work in your home country unless you get re-licensed, not to mention if your profession becomes threatened by technology or increasingly competitive labour markets you'll be completely screwed.

Everyone I know that went for the apprenticeship route is now either unemployed or has gone on to university. Today getting a bachelors is the modern equivalent of going to high school.

It's true that few really great photographers went to photography school, but photography schools didn't exist in the old days. Every notable contemporary photog I can think of and know the history of has at least a degree, though not always in photography.
 
^ Mike Rowe leads up a foundation that helps place tradesmen in positions. There are a lot of positions available in the USA that are unfilled, mostly because people are unwilling to do this kind of work.
 
jsrockit said:
I'm not so sure. I went to art school and make more money and seemingly have an easier life than many friends in the manual labor fields. I would imagine a business degree opens up more doors than any other degree... what's behind those doors might be boring, but...

And, I would imagine you have to take into account where you live too.
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Well, what kind of doors, that's the question?

I guess it's no secret that many who hold a business degree are unfortunately utterly unable to see that's there's a huge difference between their business administration, and macroeconomics. Nevertheless, particularly these ignorant business-degree-holders are always the first ones who want to define how a town, a city, a county, a state, the military, the social insurances, the universities, or whatever macroeconomic entity should be ruled …
 
I graduated from Brooks in the late 70's, without the skills that I learned and earning a BFA in Professional Photography, I never would have found employment in the photo graphic departments of Lockheed and a little later at Sandia National Labs. Sad to hear they are closing, photography has changed quite a lot. The days of the large corporate photo departments are pretty much gone.
 
cary said:
I graduated from Brooks in the late 70's, without the skills that I learned and earning a BFA in Professional Photography, I never would have found employment in the photo graphic departments of Lockheed and a little later at Sandia National Labs. Sad to hear they are closing, photography has changed quite a lot. The days of the large corporate photo departments are pretty much gone.
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As are most kinds of long-term employment. But did Lockheed and Sandia require much in the way of fine art?

Many employers use "qualifications" as a substitute for what they should be doing, which is offering apprenticeships. But apprenticeships cost money: photographic schools throw all the expense on the applicant.

An important point is that few things are static. Photography schools may have been irrelevant once; then become relevant; and now be on their way to irrelevance again. The quality of individual schools also goes up and down. Overpriced and incompetent schools will inevitably lead the way in fading into irrelevance.

Cheers,

R.
 
Same as the "jazz" music schools...ie...Berklee in Boston...churns out hundreds of competent jazz players every year..and guess what..no work for all the promises...and to boot...most "graduates" are just repeating the same old school crap they teach...and they for the most part as players.... all sound the exactly the same...
OK..
Here's your business degree..
Make money...that's all you really need to know...play music..do photo...write a book...sell stuff...streetwalk on Broadway...the rent needs to be paid..do what pays the bills...
But schools don't teach you how to do that..make money that is..as they don't know how to do it themselves..just being teachers..and gleaning the students ..of their parents hard earned money...
Of course there are some that actually find work and make it a career..but what % is that I wonder...
These days..you need to do 4 or 5 things...and be adaptable...
When your studio or music aint makin money..something else is..
 
Every year I meet many, many photography students at Arles. A small percentage are brilliant, but many more are rich kids killing time, or poor kids who have been sold a lie about "qualifications". The brilliant ones are the ones who have good ideas and can realize them: the school merely gives them help in getting exhibitions together. Most of the rest are on autopilot, and often (as Emile de Leon points out) merely regurgitate/ recycle/ re-photograph the same old stuff. Then there are those who are very good at realizing bad ideas, which is probably what you need to be hired as a professional hack.

Cheers,

R.
 
Ko,

Winogrand taught photography at the University of Texas Austin.

Avedon studied photography at the New School for Social Research in New York under Alexey Brodovitch

Leibowitz studied art at the San Francisco Art Institute

Uelsmann has a BA from Rochester Institute of Technology an MS and MFA from Indiana University and taught for decades at University of Florida.

Gibson learned photography in the Navy and then studied photography at the San Francisco Art Institute.

Wynn Bullock studied photography at the Art Center School.

John Paul Caponigro (son of Paul Caponigro) attended Yale and later studied art and photography at the University of California, Santa Cruz

His father Paul Caponigro studied photography at California School of Fine Art

Bruce Davidson studied at Yale and he studied art and photography at Rochester Institute of Technology

This could go on and on.

Many were educated in the arts and photography some not. When Bresson was studying there were no photography programs. Bresson did study art. And many that weren't formally educated had a circle of friends that were some of the finest artists of their times like Adams, Stieglitz and Weston to mention just a few. One thing they all have in common is a real love for art and burning desire to create and most all of the photographers that I mentioned taught, did work workshops and were mentors and inspiration to hundreds of others.
 
airfrogusmc,

What you wrote in your post is true but please consider another view, at least the view I have towards professional photography.

The folks I know who have been or still are professional photographers didn't always receive a formal education from an institution that has classes on photography, leading to a degree.

I can drop a few names for you.

Monte Zucker worked with Joe Zeltsman.

Clay Blackmore actually worked for Monte.

Clay's website:

http://www.clayblackmore.com

Monte was a coach, teacher and mentor to quite a few people including me.

Greg Rademacher had a gent named Phillip Charis.

Gregs website:

http://www.rademacherportraits.com/index2.php#!/HOME

Please read how long it took for Greg to first meet face to face with Charis.

Ken Sklute, some info below
http://www.ppa.com/ppa-today-blog/ken-sklute-never-live-on-yeste.php

I attended classes taught by Ken.

At any rate, there are quite a few photographers who are professional without fancy degrees and are quite successful.

Thought I would present a counterpoint.

And it gives credence as to why a person doesn't need to spend big bucks from an institution like Brooks. Or at least when Brooks was open for business. To be successful you gotta have the fire in your belly.
 
Bill,

An education isn't a guarantee of anything. My answer was in response to the non educated photographhers which there are many but there are also many that are. I would argue that all of those that were successful were educated though many may have been self educated. But still had knowledge. How many have the self motivation to force themselves to learn things that they don't want to learn. Some of those things have been some of my most valuable lessons and I probably wouldn't have learned them outside a formal setting.

I do know personally I wouldn't be working in the field I now work in if it weren't for the knowledge I gained because of my education. And I don't usually hire assistants unless they are to educated and have the right knowledge. Especially a strong background in lighting. I don't have time on the job to be teaching them. If I need to show assistants how to set up then I might as well just do it myself.

There are plenty of ways to learn. The knowledge is whats important and I know that I learned more about technique and just as important who I am as a photographer in the 4 years I was in school than I had before or since though the education is still ongoing.

I always considered my formal education as the starting point. I had a full time job upon graduation and for the 5 years I worked for 2 different photographers full time that was my graduate degree. I learned so much about the business of photography by living in it, watching it and asking a lot questions.
 
nikonhswebmaster said:
Meh, I keep pretty close track of about 50 friends and acquaintances, I either went to school with, or knew when they were students, when I was a student.

About a half dozen are multi-millionaire artists. A few major hollywood directors. A few dozen are professors, a couple of deans. Some work in other creative commercial fields. A few are artist social outsiders who defy categorization, and seem to live on air. Some were rich kids, some had famous artist parents, some came from poor families.

That is how life works. Everyone who has a creative degree does not show at the Whitney or make blockbuster movies.

EDIT: they went to all sorts of schools, traditional universities, museum schools, non degree institutions like the Art Students League or the Whitney Program, and yes for-profit schools like SVA and Brooks. I had professors who were educated inside and outside of university, even one who attended the Bauhaus.
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But this is a very highly selected group of people: those who were not only students when you were, but also those you chose to follow. It is extreme selection bias. I could equally carefully select a list of my friends and acquaintances who didn't attend art school (or indeed a university).

Cheers,

R.
 
nikonhswebmaster said:
For every Mark Zuckerberg there are the rest of us.

Art schools can open up a new world of experiences. Speaking for myself, it exposed me to a life I did not know existed. One night 50 years ago, while having coffee with Alan Ginsberg, at a White Castle, I totally understood my good fortune, and never took it for granted again.
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I couldn't agree more. My education exposed me to things that are still with me today in ways I can't even begin to explain. All the art classes I was required to take have only had a positive influence on me and my work.

One of my best friends is one of my retired professors. Great photographer and mentor. He received his MFA from RISD when Callahan and Sisikind were teaching there. He also was accepted to University of Florida to study under Uehlsmann but wanted to learn from Siskind and Callahan. I actually got to meet Harry Callahan in 1984 because of my professors relationship with him.
 
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