Busted taking photos in a public place!!

[NIKON KIU]

Taking pictures of children is easy when you take along one of your own!
I ask my son to model for me all the time

But seroiusly folks, unless you confront the cops by taking their badge numbers and writing a letter to their superior officer when such situations occur,it's going to get worse.
If the Sergents get enough complaint letters the troopers will cool down.

Kiu

 

[evad1962]

being sneaky attracts attention to yourself - -why do you need to be sneaky? the subject were busy dancing - after 5 minutes, everybody would have forgotten about you

This shot was of an amusement ride called 'Break Dance' and I had the camera up to my eye for quite a while composing the shot - nothing sneaky about it. I was shooting a Contax G2 with the 21mm on, so for some of the people shots I had to get right up close and consequently was shooting from the hip so as NOT to alarm or alert the subjects - I wanted candid stuff not hands over the lens...having said that, the security guy obviously thought it looked suss so I guess it's a trade off - if you want genuine, 'unaware of the camera' documentary shots, you run the risk of some over-zealous ****head in a fluro vest running to the law.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed - obviously it's a passionate topic amongst photogs - having (too late) looked into my legal rights I'm 99% sure that what happened should never have & had I known 2 days ago what I know now, I wouldn't have been so nice & compliant with the law.

My next move will be to complain to/contact the organisers of the event (which finishes today) to try & work out a solution so that If I decide to go back next year, the same humiliating treatment won't arise. Cfoto, thanks for your level-headed suggestions (portfolio idea is a good one)...Mirror Face, the journalist's union is an excellent idea - all of the contributions are valid, helpful & very reassuring. I ain't gonna take any more of this s**t. Keep up the fight!

PS: How many sicko pervert paedophiles still shoot film, and Fuji 400H at that?

 

[evad1962]

Evad,

I live in Newcastle, and amaware of similar incidents occurring particularly in Sydney, but also on the Central Coast holiday spots. I believe the issue you had is not shooting in a public place, in Australia, this is not illegal. However, taking pictures of children in any public place in NSW can be contsrued if the officer decides, or someone complains as against child pornography laws. If so your equipment and film can be confiscated for this reason. High profile events and places, such as the Easter show, Bondi, etc are places where the police/officials react very quickly, on the pretence of keeping children safe in these locations due to the concern of sexual predators being attracted to these locations. This is probably the reason the officers/ security guard asked about you taking pictures of children not that you can't photograph in this location.

Paul

I'm not sure this is correct - useful info can be found at http://photorights.4020.net - and BTW, every shot I took of kids had their parent/guardian either in it or just out of shot and this was the very first thing I told the cops when they confronted me. Whichever way you look at it, 99.8% of the photographing public are potential paedophiles/sickos because of the 0.2% who actually are. If I wear a balaclava on the street when its cold, does that mean I'm a bank robber...probably...

 

[Trius]

Geeze, I'm depressing. Now I want to go shoot myself.

Presumably with an RF, but with b&w, chrome or C41?

 

[PaulEv]

Evad,

To clarify what the intent of my post was, As I understand it the picture taking in NSW is not illegal, the use of the image is what is against the law IF the officer decides that it is to be used for child pornography.

I am in no way saying this was the case or you were doing anything wrong at the time, but I am aware that due to paranoia some people seem to be using this as an excuse to do what was done to you.

I do not believe it is legal for them to take this stance, or for them to confescate your gear or film. This is not right and is an infringement of your rights, the burden of proof still rests with the officer, to prove you were undertaking of a crime.

 

[naos]

When I'm out doing street photography myself, I'll sometimes get dirty looks from people but never any physical confrontation. When I'm out shooting with my girlfriend by my side, we never have any problems.

Actually, when my girlfriend is out shooting by herself she never gets hasseled. I guess females are less suspicious if their out in public with a camera?

 

[dazedgonebye]

I'm having a problem with presumption of guilt thing.

A building owner MAY have the right to prevent the commercial use of images of his building, but that certainly doesn't give him the right to prevent photos being taken. It MAY give him a civil remedy if his rights are abused.

Same for taking pictures of kids in public. Where's the crime?

If the cops think you're about to break in to the building or steal the kid, then there's reason to intervene. Otherwise...I don't think so.

 

[peterm1]

The issue of publicly minded busy bodies annoying everyone by telling them what they can and cannot do is never ending but seems to get worse by the year. Today it is worry about sickos photographing children or people on beaches that cause authorities to act against innocent people going about their business. Yesterday it was something else and tommorrow it will be something else again. There used to be an old joke about these kind of killjoys - that in old England when cruel sports like bear bating abounded they used to object to the sport not because it brought harm to the bear but because it bought pleasure to the onlookers. I am sure we are all rightly disgusted at perverts . Its a worry however when this concern affects our behaviour unduly. I myself have been known to walk past a kid crying after falling down in a shopping centre rather than offering aid or comfort because I am afraid someone might impugn my motives. I kick myself afterwards as its so cowardly but still fear that someone could accuse me of something unintended merely because I was there and trying to help.

 

[peterm1]

I only ever once had a problem, since as I do not wish to offend people I am very careful of how and when I take photographs. I have many photos of streets and the backs of people walking down them for this reason. I guess I am not cut out to be HCB. (In my case, its the "indecisive moment".)

A few months back while visiting Brisbane I was sitting out of doors (and some distance away from the main building) at a cafe. My mother who I was visiting got up to go indoors to order a meal or visit the loo or some such and I proceeded to take her photo as she walked to the door, before turning back to my coffee. A few moments later a youngish (20's - 30s) and very fit looking man confronted me and demanded in a very aggressive manner why I was taking photos of him . I explained that I was photographing my mother and not him and if he was even in the shot it was purely unintended. I then turned and ignored him figuring that he would either get more aggressive or not, but my best bet was to just go on doing what I was doing - having a coffee. He stood and glared at me for 30 seconds perhapas considering how far to take it and then left. My mother returned a few moments later and inquired what was happening and when I explained to ehr she was more upset than I was. When I checked the photo (I was using a digital on this occasion not one of my beloved rangefinders) the guy in question was not even in view - he was sitting inside the cafe and the reflection on the glass from the outside rendered him invisible. My guess was that he was a sporting "hero" - he looked the type and was "big noting" himself in front of his "crowd" about papparazzi annoying him.

 

[kully]

I've only been into this photography thing for a year now, so I was one of the "ignorant twats" before then and I still get a twinge of suspicion when I see some bloke on his own, looking shifty with his camera in the street. And, even though I know it is legal and I have no right to complain - I _hate_ people sneaking photos of me when I'm walking down the street.

I'm also rather shy so if I take a photo I'll quickly look away in case I get stared at..

But, these three ways have helped me considerably:

- As Naos says, walking with my g/f. Although then I have to contend with her getting fed up with my and my "feckin camera"
- Wearing a day-glo vest. This one is weird, I've only tried this twice but it works. People will spot you but then don't take notice of you. You're either looking 'official' in some way or coming across as not trying to be shifty.
- Taking a photo and then smiling at anyone that turns around. Difficult, but my gormless smile probably brings out the pity in people.

 

[David Murphy]

Certain 'tourist attractions' are also off limits- USS Constitution comes to mind. I was detained for photographing a fence there- it is a US Navy base. However no-one else was bothered for making photographs of people and the fence, so I suppose I should have thrown one of the kids in the frame. My film was not taken, but my ID was held during the check. I cooperated, despite being pissed and tried to keep my good humor.

Had there been ANY interest in taking film I would have sat tight and waited to be arrested and formally charged- but being on a Navy base I suppose I'd have a chance at being labelled an 'enemy combatant' and been shipped to warmer climes.

I lived for a time as a kid on an army base, was in trouble with the MP's then too...

Interestingly the USS Constitution is still a commisioned ship in the US Navy. It goes out to sea once or twice a year. I thought the naval base it was one of those closed down right after the Cold War?

 

[sepiareverb]

Interestingly the USS Constitution is still a commisioned ship in the US Navy. It goes out to sea once or twice a year. I thought the naval base it was one of those closed down right after the Cold War?

As did I. There does not seem to be any problem taking photos of the actual ship, only the environs of the ship. I think I may have aroused suspicion by not wanting my film run through the x-ray machine. They refused to hand inspect, so I refused to go on the ship. While the rest of my family (wife, kids, inlaws, sister-in-law & nephew) were on the ship, I wandered around checking out the old drydock and some machinery. Saw the fencing as a wonderful design, made two frames and was being questioned within a matter of minutes. There are signs at the entrance to the area (wide open) that no weapons are allowed, but no mention is made of any photography restrictions. But as I have learned before, ignorance of the law is no excuse (regardless of which side of the badge you are on!).