Buying a user

[joshmlevine]

Hi All,

I have been yearning to get myself a Leica after shooting a friends M2 a while back.
Up until now I have been using a Bessa R with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses, while I am fairly happy with the system.
I am a student, and don't have much to spend, which puts me in the user end of the market.
I was originally considering an M2 or perhaps M4, but have recently seen an M6 advertised elsewhere which I think I could just about stretch to price wise.
Its an early (1987) M6, in well used condition, no dents or dings, but "brassing" around most of the edges, and base plate and non-original covering.
The seller says that there is some haze in the rangefinder window, but that it does not affect the performance.
Would the haze be a problem, and is a camera this age likly to require a CLA?
Leicas seem to hold their value quite well, this camera is perhaps $300-$400 under the price for a M6 in good/exc condition, does this seem about right, and is its condition likly effects the resale value over a M6 in better condition, if I ever where to sell it?
I am not particulary bothered by the user condition, I want to use the camera, look at it, or feel bad using it, so in that respect it may be better, it just seems like money far better spent that on a entry level DSLR which costs a similar amount.

 

[kmack]

If you intend to get into and can afford M lenses then the answer could be yes, buy the Leica.
I would ask myself: What will the M6 do for me that the R does not?

 

[simonankor]

I agree with Kevin. The Bessa R is a fine camera - I use one along with my Canon P and despite much urging from my Leica-using friends, I have not yet found the need to move to the M system.

If you want to get into the M lens mount, do consider the very good options from Voigtlander - the R2, T, R2/3a, R2/3m are all great cameras. I have a Bessa T as well as my R, though I must admit I'm pondering whether I really need it or not!

 

[Ben Z]

If you plan to use your existing lenses (with screw-to-M adaptor rings), your photos aren't going to show something more for having used an M6 vs the Bessa. And many would say unless you were to buy the latest (read=hyper expensive) APO Leica lenses you would get better optical results sticking with the Voitlander lenses. You'll get the personal thrill/satisfaction/whatever of owning a Leica, if that's what will make you happy, then definitely go for it. Be aware though that these are all mechanical devices and things can and do go awry. Repairs are fairly expensive and what seems like a simple fault can easily push the cost of a "beater" body well over that of a much nicer one. Many M6 and probably most M6TTL bodies have been owned/used by amateurs, and used lightly and kept in nice condition. One that's seen hard professional use and is beaten and worn is probably the exception rather than the rule. But buying one that hasn't been used much can be a problem too, because the shutter lubricants dry out and they still need to be overhauled before they're reliably usable. The best bet for finding one that you won't need to part with for a couple months off the bat and spend $300 on an overhaul, is to look for one that's had a recent overhaul by DAG or Sherry Krauter. Used cameras sell based 90% on cosmetic condition so the cost of an overhaul can never be fully added to the sale price. An alternative is to look for a nice M6 with serial number 2,400,000 or higher, or M6TTL. These are less likely to need service, but again, even a little thing like misbehaving framelines requires significant dissassembly and therefore will cost $$$$.

 

[Andrew3511]

I'd be a bit wary of a hazy rangefinder window. For me the joy of using either the M2 I bought last year (£570 with a rigid 50mm summicron) or the M4-P I bought a couple of months ago (£499 with 40mm summicron) is actually the rangefinder and the different way of seeing a picture that gives over the SLR. There are several dealers in the London area that have reasonably priced Leicas if you watch and wait. A user M6 is likely to be at least £600 though and that's without a lens. Keep an eye on London Camera Exchange (Strand) and Aperture (near British Museum). Both have regularly updated websites. Jessops Classics again near the Museum are closing down and had 20% off everything when I went there a couple of weeks ago. They certainly had an M2 and might have had an M6 - I can't really remember. H.G. Lewis in Holborn had an M6 but it was a bit more pricey. You do want one that does the job, however beaten up it looks.

 

[MCTuomey]

There's a reason the M6 that caught your fancy is priced below market: the camera's condition It will likely need an expensive CLA once it's bought, as Ben Z notes. Funny how price nearly always approximates real value.

If you really must have an M body, wouldn't you be better off to check the classifieds here regularly for a well-worn but well-cared-for M2/3/4/4x/5/6 from one of the fourm's reliable M users? Be patient and you will find a reasonable deal.

Good luck in your search,
Mike

 

[wlewisiii]

I agree with the others that this M6 sounds like trouble. A KEH bargain grade M3 or M2 would probably be a much better purchase.

Another option to seriously consider is a CL. Small and quite a nice little package that gives you a M mount body for much less coin than other options. If you can live without a meter, $200 for a user body is fairly common.

William

 

[terrafirmanada]

Buy an M2 or an M3.

 

[terrafirmanada]

Here is why:

 

[terrafirmanada]

If you buy one of these fine cameras, they will teachyou how to take photos. I am no longer carrying my meter in daylight, and willl one day be confident in shade. A rangefinder camera is an awsome point and shoot, or a great tripod/ portrait set-up. I exclusively use my 40mm cron and 90mm elmar (fav lense) after two years of figuring it out. (I have spent several thousand, and will spend thousands more.) BUT if you just want to have fun, and take great shots,not to mention learn the basics. STAY WITH THE BASICS. P.S. If you have a 35 2.8 to unload i am looking.

 

[Ben Z]

If you buy one of these fine cameras, they will teachyou how to take photos.

Now I understand why my M6s were rated "Bargain" even though they look Excellent+. Mine just sit there until I pick them up, and then I have to do all the thinking on my own 😡

I am no longer carrying my meter in daylight, and willl one day be confident in shade..

Mmm. I use a meter, but as a tool, not with blind faith. At the moment I'm still concentrating on learning composition, but as soon as I master that I think it'd be neat to learn how to guess exposures.

 

[lmd91343]

I have been yearning to get myself a Leica after shooting a friends M2 a while back.
Up until now I have been using a Bessa R with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses, while I am fairly happy with the system.
I am a student, and don't have much to spend, which puts me in the user end of the market.

Josh,

I think there are three points to consider:

1) You have a mechanical rangefinder with three lenses that you are happy with. There is nothing that you could do with the Leica M that you can't do with your current system. A Leica M is a joy to hold and use, but it offers nothing in function over your current system. Maybe a little less with the loss of TTL metering.

2) The camera/film industry is undergoing massive dislocations. Leica and Nikon have been on the edge of trouble. Minolta, Contax, Kodak, Konica, Mamiya and others have stopped making cameras. Almost all major camera manufacturers (leica included) except Canon and Pentax have announced their intention of not creating new film cameras. Kodak and Fuji have had their problems. The camera market, both film and digital will have greatly changed in three years.

3) You are a 20 year old student with limited funds. Don't burden yourself with an expensive camera that offers nothing extra in functionality. When you are 23 reevaluate. You should have more money and Leicas will not have dissapeared.

 

[joshmlevine]

Thanks for the excellent advice.
Since I am happy with the Bessa, I think I will stick with this system for the time being.

Thanks again,