Calling V.1 50mm Summilux fans

[Mark C]

Would you say the v2 is closest in performance to the v2 summicron?

I have a vintage test from Camera 35 magazine comparing the new and old Summilux, and both to the rigid Summicron. They really only looked at resolution and the results were about as you would suspect with the Summicron on top. But the Summilux 2 was considered a very adequate substitute if you needed the speed. Still, the Summilux 1 had better wide open performance than I expected and very good stopped down performance. Center resolution was where the Summilux 2 showed improvement, and across the field performance was great with the Summicron. That test was one of the things that piqued my interest in the V1, along with some photos I've seen on the forum.

I was able to borrow a V1 Summilux from a fellow RFF member to shoot at a dance this evening so may finally be able to satisfy my curiosity. I alternated between the V1 and V2, and threw an early Sonnar 50/1.5 into the mix later in the evening. The film is drying now, so I'll at least get a good look at them on my light table in the morning.

I did run a quick focus confirmation as soon as I picked up the lens, and as I expected it focused spot on at 1.4 just like my V2. Comparable focus shift with both versions at f2.8.

 

[David Murphy]

I've never used one, but I once had a Vers. 1 Summilux in my possession for a while as I was selling it for a friend. The build quality left a lasting impression on me. It was really one of most beautifully crafted lenses mechanically I've encountered. A few others lenses I've seen which I'd put in that category are some of the early Nikon rangefinder lenses made in LTM and certain Zeiss Contax rangefinder lenses, especially the Opton post war models.

 

[Daryl J.]

Marc, I'd love to see that.

 

[Mark C]

Marc, I'd love to see that.

The old test? Not much detail beyond resolution numbers, so I could post that info here tomorrow. PM me about it.

I've shot quite a bit with the borrowed 50 Summilux 1 over the last 5 days. Mostly shooting comparisons in situations where I would normally use that lens, and need the speed. A much softer look wide open than my V2, but I like it quite a lot.

There is actually a fair bit of detail at 1.4, and if scanning or shooting digital, just a touch of edge sharpening would really clear it up. Darkroom printing from film there might be times when it would be a little softer than I would prefer. Really, it is much more like a Sonnar in that regard than it is the V2 Summilux. And a lot like the 35 Summilux. A lot of character wide open, then very good performance starting at f2. It is a bit sharper than my early Sonnar wide open, but not all that much difference, though also a bit calmer in the out of focus. A really nice look.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

Sony A7ii + TAP + V. 1 50mm

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105188&stc=1&d=1481780564

 

[Daryl J.]

I was able to borrow a V1 Summilux from a fellow RFF member to shoot at a dance this evening so may finally be able to satisfy my curiosity. I alternated between the V1 and V2, and threw an early Sonnar 50/1.5 into the mix later in the evening. The film is drying now, so I'll at least get a good look at them on my light table in the morning.

Hi Marc,
This.


With my 1.5/50 Summarit, I've wondered if scanning the negs and sharpening them up just a tad would give what I'm after on my wide open images. I haven't such capacity yet so it's entirely on film and optical prints.

 

[Ronald M]

@Ronald M: Being just a layman with a camera interest, what is a 5 kit range @F1.5?
Thanks.

My computer is starting to auto complete and it does it wrong. That or I missed typed.

5 meter to infinity and 1.5 thru 4.0 I never noticed a focus shift on my Summarit

 

[Daryl J.]

My computer is starting to auto complete and it does it wrong. That or I missed typed.

5 meter to infinity and 1.5 thru 4.0 I never noticed a focus shift on my Summarit

Don't you just love autocorrect!?

Got it, much appreciated.
Thanks,
Daryl

 

[Mark C]

Hi Marc,
This.


With my 1.5/50 Summarit, I've wondered if scanning the negs and sharpening them up just a tad would give what I'm after on my wide open images. I haven't such capacity yet so it's entirely on film and optical prints.

If the resolution is there, that seems to be the case to me. Just the normal sharpening regime for scanning is enough to make something like the 35 Summilux seem much sharper wide open compared to a darkroom print, often leading a whole different impression of a lens.

It seems pretty well documented that the Summarit was intended to focus perfectly at around f2.8. That leads to just a slight front focus at 1.5 on a perfectly adjusted camera. But rangefinder adjustment is seldom that perfect, so the exact focus is going to depend on your camera and lens. The thing is that front focus (actual focus being closer than the subject) is not as apparent as back focus, so often just appears to be softness. I've made a few nice looking people pictures wide open with the Summarit, but I wouldn't call them sharp. The Summilux 1 sure seems better and the focus seems spot on at 1.4.

I think I said something earlier about the focus shift being like a Sonnar, but realized after posting that might not be accurate. The Sonnar will shift a little bit out of the depth of field, but the Summilux looks like it does not. I I don't know if the Summarit is about the same in that regard since I don't have one here to verify that. The point of best focus does shift away from you as you stop down, as with nearly all traditional fast lenses, but often isn't apparent or a significant issue.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Any one knows about this modification, add-on for the Sal Dimarco Lux lens? I don't know if it is on v1 or earlier v2...

 

[iaeaix]

King Grant, the founder of KEH, sold the company a couple of years ago. I was a customer of KEH almost since day one when They were located in an old house on Spring St in downtown Atlanta. You could go by and ask to see particular items and they'd bring up a selection to the lobby ( living room) for you to choose from. That must have been in the late 70's or early 80's.

Until Grant sold it was true that Bargain was usually EX or better. Of the dozens of lenses and cameras I bought I don't think I had any Bgn grade less than Ex. Since the sale Ive had bargain that was a disaster and Ex that was less than bargain. I purchased a 400 f3.5 Nikkor AIs in bargain grade that should have been AS IS and a 200mm Nikkor AIs Ex grade that had obvious impact damage. The 400 had large deep circular scratches in the front element, 80% of the paint was worn off and the focus rattled and was extremely loose. I purchased a Leica CL and was told it worked perfect and was E+. When it arrived the meter didn't work. In addition they've gon back on their policy of price matching and paying for returns of defective items.

Bgn is 80% and there are 2 grades below that Ugly and AS IS. Your lens should have been AS IS due to fungus. As Is is defined by in acceptable.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread.

Good to now, I too have found their grading has gone messed.
I got a few Ex rated items that could be only rated between BGN and UG, terrible scratches on lens body and a lot of scratchs on glass, that was Leica lens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Daryl J.]

I've stopped buying from KEH due to their now faulty grading system. It's consistently over-graded and subsequently over priced for the items received. Wallet Closed. And I'm not returning.

The Lux that lives with me came from Tamarkin and I'm very happy with how it was graded. And usually I purchase at the local old camera store in NoPo.

 

[Leica All Day]

I have a V1 50mm Summilux, it was the first lens I got for my Leica around 16 years ago. It has been everywhere with me.

Varanasi, India.....Tri-x

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Rome..... Tri-x


Kashmir, Pakistan


cheers, michael

 

[Mark C]

Micheal, I'm glad you showed up in this thread. Your top picture, plus one of a person welding or brazing were what first piqued my interest in this lens. That plus an old magazine comparison I read led me to wonder if the first version Summilux might have its own merits that were mostly overshadowed by the later version of the lens.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M5, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 pre asph v1, 400-2TMY.

To show the very low degree of (pincushion) distortion of the lens.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Leica M3, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 pre asph v2, Tmax100.

To show the much bigger (barrel) distortion of the lens.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I've made a test shot with both the v1 and the v2:

Leica M2, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v1, 400-2TMY:

Leica M2, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 v2, 400-2TMY:

The sharpness on the target is better with the v2, but on all other fields the v1 wins. Do you agree?

Erik.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Thank you for test!
On previous week I have seen V1 (on M3) for first time. It was clean and well lubed copy. Impressive.
I'm looking at the cup, where peak of sharpness is. And it is nice at both.
Erik, I have seen your v1 photos at RFF and to me you don't have to prove it any longer 🙂. To me v1 looks better on bw film.
I also have seen Summarit, V1 and V2 test shots on M9 and... it seems only v2 is OK on digital Leica if wide open.

 

[Daryl J.]

It took a while to shoot the roll of FP4 but finally I have my first V.1 'Lux results in. I love it.

It's not bitingly sharp like some of my modern lenses but suffice to say it will be a primary user for me.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Thank you for test!

Thank you, Ko.Fe., I've made the same test with the Summiluxes 35mm v1 and v2 here:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159114


The reason why Leitz stopped producing the Summilux 50mm V1 was that they had to pay Taylor, Taylor and Hobson for using their design: the Summilux 50mm V1 was basically a Xenon.


The V2 was their own design. To stop with the V1 was an austerity measure and had nothing to do with the quality of the lens: the V1 is much better. Leitz must have known that.

Erik.