Camera or Film Problem

[TomN]

Hello all. I posted a question on a film developing forum about a roll that was just ruined. The general consensus was that it is an issue with the shutter on my M3 but I'm not convinced. This was the second out of three rolls I have shot with the camera. The first roll and last roll I shot were perfect however this second roll has issues. This is why I tend to think it is a film or perhaps a developing issue as opposed to a camera issue. There is no physical damage on the film however the effected sections seem to be fairly evenly spaced along the entire roll of Neopan 400. All images were shot at varying shutter speeds as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The dealer also thinks it may be a shutter issue, therefore I have to send my camera back for a check over. Any help would be appreciated.
Tom

 

[TomN]

another...

 

[TomN]

....and one more.

Why was my last film perfect and yet every frame on this film ruined?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Looks like a shutter problem to me. Not a light leak - doesn't extend into the sprocket area. Maybe some film debris caught in the shutter curtains. But, almost certainly a shutter problem.

 

[delft]

I vote for shutter-problem too.
Wild guess: Is it a double-stroke?
When you cock the shutter, the curtains move along the film. If 1st and 2nd curtain have a small gap between them, and you pause midway during winding, there is an instant where this gap will briefy expose/fog the film.
Just a wild guess, I'm no shutter-expert.

Greetings,
Dirk

 

[TomN]

ah, i hadn't thought of the double stroke action. i have a single stroke M3, but I double stroke it!

 

[Pickett Wilson]

No, double stroking it won't cause a problem.

 

[hans voralberg]

How can you double stroke a single stroke M3 ??

 

[thetooth]

if the other 2 rolls were good and the damage is evident throughout the entire bad roll . i would chalk it up to a bad roll of film . unless you were using different shutter speeds for the bad roll . why don't you shoot another roll and use all the shutter speeds start at 1sec and work you way to 1/1000 and then back down and see if you can duplicate the problem it might be i of the shutter speeds is off .

i have received a bad roll of film before where there was a imperfection throughout the roll . i would to the test above just to confirm just buy a cheap roll of c41 process and have them develop only ( most lab charge $2.00 for a 1 hour develop only you won't need the prints to check for the damage )

 

[TomN]

I am going to shoot another two rolls this week and develop on Saturday to check. Even if the rolls are okay, I guess there will be that doubt in my mind still. With the damaged roll, there certainly was a variety of shutter speeds used, all of course were damaged.

 

[VictorM.]

The shape looks like a gap between the curtains-where they should overlap. Have you looked at the shutter curtains while winding to the next frame? If you open the back (without film of course!) and remove the lens, fire and then wind the shutter while holding the body up to a light. Light should not show through the curtains except during exposure.

Mmmm...maybe the curtains aren't maintaining their gap during exposure. Maybe the second curtain is catching the first curtain and then separating during exposure.

 

[Tom A]

I could be something as simple as a filmchip stuck in the track for that second roll. If it was caught between the curtains, it would explain the tapered look to the "flash". When you reloaded for the third roll, it could just have fallen out and that's why it doesn't show on the third roll. Dry fire the camera and look at the curtain travel. Does it close even or does the top part overlap a bit? Look inside the body from the front and see if there is a piece of film floating around. It could have come from the first roll and gotten stuck during the rewinding, thats why it shows up on the second roll.

 

[Fred]

It certainly looks like a shutter problem as its already been stated that the fault does not go beyond the sprocket holes. Looks like the fault happens when the shutter is being cocked (film wound on) as a tapering shutter on release would show different symptoms. This may only show on a few frames as you may not have wound the film on after each shot with the light entering the lens (lens cap on, pointing the camera at a subdued area?).

So with the lens off without a film loaded look into the throat of the camera as you wind on, if you see a tapered gap at the bottom between the shutter curtains, that confirm the shutter, it could be some debris inside causing this as mentioned earlier. Now try the same thing and 'half' wind on, then as you wind on the final bit check for that gap appearing.. It could still be debris but a good CLA may cure it. A dry blower may dislodge the offending item or a light vacuum by sucking though a straw with the camera fired on B (shutter openend of the straw aimed at the lower shutter guide) may do a better trick.

 

[TomN]

Thank you all so much for your help. I think that Fred and Tom might be spot on in their thinking that it could be one of the two issues they discussed above. I do double stroke and after the first stroke, the shutter join seems to be in about the same place as the marks on the film. But, I did shine a torch through the camera fromt he front and the back and cannot see any light coming through. I fired the shutter at various speeds and it seems to fire normally.

End result is that the dealer is encouraging me to send the camera back for a check over. I hate to be a camera down, but it sure will give me some peice of mind. Thanks again all.

 

[Wetzlarfan]

I had a similar problem with a (new) MP I've had for about five years. Every six months or so, I would get a long horizontal streak and intermittent vertical streaks like you have. I posted the problem and someone suggested that in trying to use the 38th frame, the shutter might stay part-way open if the advance couldn't be completed. Rewinding with a knob causes the intermittent, irregular light streaks, Solution: Stop at frame 36 or, if you go too far, cover the lens, rewind a few frames, advance the shutter the rest of the way, and then rewind normally.

 

[nikon_sam]

Looks like a shutter problem to me. Not a light leak - doesn't extend into the sprocket area. Maybe some film debris caught in the shutter curtains. But, almost certainly a shutter problem.

I agree with Pickett...the problem is staying with in the image and not going beyond into the sprocket holes...plus they look identical...it's a pattern not a random light leak...unless it's something in the processing...this was on a roll of B&W and the other two were color...Try another roll and have it developed by another lab...:bang:

 

[TomN]

Thanks all, I think it is most certainly a camera issue howver Wetzlarfan has an interesting suggestion. I do often take the roll to the 37 or 38th frame and it will jam the rewind lever but maybe sometimes th shutter. I have shot several rolls since and had no issues since (apart from the wind issue I posted in another thread).