Camera "Scanning" -- Use Di-Chro Head to undo Color Mask?

[jzagaja]

Lightroom or photoshop CS5

Have to check ACR module it can do many hidden transformations. I'm sure you can use my plugin to save .amp inversion curve without levels and import into ACR. Just write file gamma 2,2 in settings.


Maybe also try RPP or DCRAW:
http://www.mit.edu/~kimo/blog/linear.html

Post your RAW file.

 

[brbo]

Do you know how to get consistent results with colorperfect? I have it and feel its a complete waste of money. Nearly impossible to get consistent results. It's also VERY confusing to use, completely unintuitive. All the help files are just as confusing. If you can get consistent results with it please share. I would really like to know

Inconsistent in what way? If you produced a roll of negative film with absolutely consistent exposure and had it scanned with absolutely the same exposure, there should be absolutely zero work needed after setting the ColorPerfect parameters on one shot, saving the parameters and using them on next frames from that roll.

95% of the time my only "interaction" with CP is picking neutral point. My "yet another CP tutorial" would be VERY short. The "Ducati" inversion was a 20 second deal. That's because I wanted it to look like a finished picture. Otherwise I spend less in CP because I work on the image later in Lightroom.

 

[Godfrey]

Off-topic here, but my Washi arrived yesterday! I'm going under the knife tomorrow, but should be up and about enough to shoot the Washi next week. Will re-visit your recommendations before loading the Rollei.

Good luck with your surgery!

When you're back to it, be sure to join in the Washi W Development thread. I'm posting reports about all of my Washi experiences there, and notes on use, etc. 🙂

G

 

[Godfrey]

Unusual that the sky was so much brighter than the sun. It looks to me like the cyan is from the red left in the capture by your light source, unlike Colonel Moran's. Also, the cylinder head peeking out of the fairing of the duck on the right is seriously badass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsB6IBN8gHc

Standard 900SS Mike Hailwood Replica fare. 🙂

The cyan has nothing to do with the light source or some deficiency in the basic processing. I just didn't remove it as I felt that was something I'd do in a finish rendering step past the inversion and foundation processing. I don't like working fine details like that with the inverted controls.

G

 

[Godfrey]

Do you know how to get consistent results with colorperfect? I have it and feel its a complete waste of money. Nearly impossible to get consistent results. It's also VERY confusing to use, completely unintuitive. All the help files are just as confusing. If you can get consistent results with it please share. I would really like to know

I trialed CP and couldn't see any particular benefit for my workflow. I get just as good or better results when I do color neg to positive conversions without it, and found it a waste to spend any more time learning it.

My photos of the Ducatis, btw, are not what I'd consider "finished" renderings. I presented them as an example of simple color negative inversion workflow solutions.

G

 

[jzagaja]

Here is your photo linearized (gamma 2,2) and then converted to log, inverted and Levels applied. All in PS 6 (old).

 

[stompyq]

Have to check ACR module it can do many hidden transformations. I'm sure you can use my plugin to save .amp inversion curve without levels and import into ACR. Just write file gamma 2,2 in settings.


Maybe also try RPP or DCRAW:
http://www.mit.edu/~kimo/blog/linear.html

Post your RAW file.

Thank you!! I will give this a go and post the results

 

[Godfrey]

Here is your photo linearized (gamma 2,2) and then converted to log, inverted and Levels applied. All in PS 6 (old).

You'll have to explain more about what your process is and what problem it strives to overcome that the process I showed can't handle. What do the curves mean in the context of this example? Et cetera. There's just a lot of missing information that makes it difficult to understand what advantage you're striving to achieve.

Thanks!
G

 

[jzagaja]

My workflow is very simple. First you debayer your RAW image from digital camera which is linear to luminance (dark on screen). Then you apply LOG curve because this is how film store luminance so then image is linear to image recorded on negative. Then you do simple inversion and set black point (orange mask removal) and white point using levels. You can put everything in one curve and treat all the frames from negative. If you underexposed or overexposed use Schlick curve for correction. This is great because you keep film character. If you want increase saturation then convert to linear image (gamma 2,2) apply 3x3 matrix (Photoshop algorithm is ok but could be better) and inverse gamma 2,2. If you increase saturation in log-gamma domain then colors will be too bright - even Fuji XT2 with great color science does that but ok a matter of taste.

 

[jzagaja]

if your image is gamma 2,2 and you removed orange mask with Levels then conversion curve is very gentle because you are almost in LOG space. See screenshot from my plug-in.

 

[philipus]

I'm happy to see someone else uses CP sparingly and leaves other corrections to later in the workflow. I use CP for one specific purpose which is to make the photograph positive. I don't even click a neutral grey but only cycle through the colour versions using the Restore settings button. Then I OK out, spot as necessary in Photoshop and save the TIFF, which becomes my original file.

Incidentally here's a first draft of an article I recently wrote about my workflow. The CP bit is towards the end.

br
Philip

Inconsistent in what way? If you produced a roll of negative film with absolutely consistent exposure and had it scanned with absolutely the same exposure, there should be absolutely zero work needed after setting the ColorPerfect parameters on one shot, saving the parameters and using them on next frames from that roll.

95% of the time my only "interaction" with CP is picking neutral point. My "yet another CP tutorial" would be VERY short. The "Ducati" inversion was a 20 second deal. That's because I wanted it to look like a finished picture. Otherwise I spend less in CP because I work on the image later in Lightroom.

 

[brbo]

***deleted***

 

[philipus]

Thank you for sharing this, it is very interesting to compare workflows, I think. I leave all such tweaking to Adobe Camera Raw.

br
Philip

Ok, I took screenshots of what I would do (I don't have a digital camera so I just used my workflow for scans from... scanners):

Crop to single frame (to show that adjustments to single frame can be easily carried to next frame):



Open in CP...



... and cyce to 'Fresh' (I have CP setup so that it automatically starts with settings from previous frame applied):



Pick neutral point (probably the road or white car, CP doesn't care if you pick 18% grey or almost pure white, just as long as it's neutral):



Adjust "Black" and "BP Tails" so that there is no or very little clipping:



Saturation and gamma so it's not as flat (otherwise I don't do that and bring contrast up in Lightroom):



"OK" out of CP, in PS undo CP inversion and cropping, open CP again with full frame. If you have CP set up to apply previous characterisations...



... the full frame picture will be already finished:



Color blind person can do it. Final picture has fully open shadows, no clipping in highlights, doesn't have ridiculous color shifts, it's flat so you can process the sh** out of it.

And I understand that if you are after Frontier/Noritsu look straight out of CP... it won't give you that*.


* I don't know how to do that

 

[Godfrey]

My workflow is very simple. ...

Ok, I took screenshots of what I would do ...

Sorry, but both your workflow descriptions sound impenetrably complicated to me.

My last workflow example can be summarized step by step as:

1. Import capture into Lightroom
2. Sample area of rebate with WB dropper to filter out mask
3. Use Basics / Exposure slider to set rebate to unsaturated white.
4. Use Tone Curve / point curve to invert image.
5. Use Tone Curve / point curve to set black point and white point.
6. Use Tone Curve / point curve to apply gamma correction curve.
7. Export capture with reimport to create TIFF positive
8. Do finish editing per your taste.

Notes:

• Steps 4,5,6 can be collapsed into a Develop preset.
• Step 7 can be an Export preset.
• All the operations can be applied to as many or as few negative images as you please at the same time, depending on how similar a batch of negative captures might be.

Another important note has to do with the goal of the exercise: I'm not trying to emulate some film characteristic. I'm trying to invert and correct a color negative to make a good pleasing photograph. 🙂

Can you simply and clearly describe your workflow in a similar way so that I can understand what the operations and their purposes are?

thanks,
G

 

[stompyq]

Thank you for sharing this, it is very interesting to compare workflows, I think. I leave all such tweaking to Adobe Camera Raw.

br
Philip

In your workflow that pick neutral point in CP step. That's where the entire thing falls apart since everything changes depending on where you pick as a neutral point. It works for some images very well. for others, it fails spectacularly. Sorry. I've done what your doing and it doesn't work

 

[jzagaja]

Godfrey - you must understand color science basics. Is Curve/Levels complicated just two steps?

Here is inversion curve from gamma 2,2 image into log space so you can apply in any Adobe application and set black/white point. Two steps only.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByP8kkW_h00uWUxsend6LTl2eGc

 

[Ranchu]

brbo's color is super clean though, Godfrey, you stopped before you got to that point, with the massive cyan cast still there.

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

Hey, friends and fellow shooters --

Let's avoid competition of workflows and results.

My aim in starting this thread is to understand what's going on. I have learned that the orange mask is not uniform; it's strongest in unexposed areas of the color negative and weakest where the negative is darkest. I cannot tell yet if this makes a difference.

My original question was much more limited: Is there an advantage in using Cyan/Magenta illumination vs. white light when doing the camera-scan? It seemed intuitive to me, but I'm still not sure I've seen a difference. Will do a comparison soon.

Again, I'll say that the options in PS Curves "Auto" seem like a breakthrough to me.

JZagaja, thanks for your comments, links, and pointer to the plug-in. I frankly haven't digested all this, but will give it all a serious look. I have long been concerned that the non-linearity of tonal representation in the digital file would be a problem when inverting color negative images.

My best regards to all!

 

[Huss]

My original question was much more limited: Is there an advantage in using Cyan/Magenta illumination vs. white light when doing the camera-scan? It seemed intuitive to me, but I'm still not sure I've seen a difference. Will do a comparison soon.

One thing you can do is while in LiveView, before you take the 'scan' of the negative, is manually adjust the white balance in camera. You would obviously shift it to the blue/cyan end of the temperature scale until you feel that it has compensated for the orange film base.
Then take the 'scan' and process from there on.

 

[Godfrey]

One thing you can do is while in LiveView, before you take the 'scan' of the negative, is manually adjust the white balance in camera. You would obviously shift it to the blue/cyan end of the temperature scale until you feel that it has compensated for the orange film base.
Then take the 'scan' and process from there on.

This is completely irrelevant if you are capturing raw files. White balance is set in the raw conversion. Raw converters simply use the setting that the camera embeds in EXIF to get something representative of the scene.

G