Changing lens in bright sun

[zauhar]

OK, this sounds like a FAQ (and a dumb one), but searching the site did not turn up an immediate answer.

I just developed some photos from yesterday's shore trip, taken with my M3. I have a few frames ruined by a big dark rectangular smudge that "bleeds" over the edges of the frame. In one case it extends over more than one frame.

I believe this might have happened when I was switching lenses. I know enough not to point the camera at the sun with lens attached, but I am pretty sure I laid the camera down for a moment with the lens off and the noontime sun coming directly down on the exposed shutter. Would that do it?

I hope that is all it is, because that is a mistake I can easily avoid in the future.

Thanks!

Randy

 

[Particular]

It sounds like a not uncommon light leak on an M3. I had it years ago and had it repaired. It is possible that taking the lens of left it more exposed, but chances are that it will also appear sporadically when the lens is attached. In my case it did only happen in bright sun light, and the light was leaking in from the viewfinder.

 

[zauhar]

This is a big area being exposed, literally more than a frame - was that what you experienced?

Randy

(I will get a scan of it tomorrow.)

 

[Particular]

No, what I had was more like a smudge. It did cross the frame line though. I have seen images in other threads about light leaks that looked like mine.
Are you sure that you didn't accidentally fire the shutter while it was open, with light leaking onto the neighboring frames? I am not sure how that much light could get in. An image would certainly help.

 

[George Bonanno]

I think your shutter was stuck open as in T or B for that to happen. What you observed on the negs was from severe light piping through the film base. Whether a lens was on or off the camera isn't here nor there. Look at the negs and determine your time line from the day. That should be your clue as to what and when it happened.

Changing lenses in bright direct sun on a Leica might exhibit a slight fog or light leak but not what you described unless the shutter was fully open.

Again, look at your negs and determine your time line. Personally I think it was an open shutter, though not necessarily when you changed lenses. Or just plain operator error... it happens.

If in total doubt have your shutter checked.

 

[zauhar]

Fog is more like it - there is visible image through the smear. I will scan and add an image tonight.

Thanks ,

Randy

 

[B.J.Scharp]

I've had problems on one of my M3s with a bright light source at the edge of the image (like the sun) bleeding out to the next frame. Never got around to finding out if it was a problem with my M3 or a general design flaw in the M3. Haven't noticed it in my other M3 though.

 

[rlouzan]

Sounds like light seals will have to be replaced.

 

[errorlogin]

Not sure, how exactly look you negatives, but it could be possible that the both shutter curtains do not close correctly, while the shutter is released. Then they leave a tiny slot open for light.

This explains, the leak only when changing lenses.

Try to change the lenses with the shutter cocked and look, if it still happens.

 

[zauhar]

I've had problems on one of my M3s with a bright light source at the edge of the image (like the sun) bleeding out to the next frame. Never got around to finding out if it was a problem with my M3 or a general design flaw in the M3. Haven't noticed it in my other M3 though.

Yes, I have noticed on my negatives that a bright light near the edge of the frame bleeds off the frame. This does not affect the quality of the picture, so I have not worried about it. But, I have never noticed that on negatives shot on my Canon.

I did not have a chance to get a scan of the M3 negative yet, will do so today and post it, would appreciate if you could take a look later and let me know if you have seen something like it.

Thanks!


Randy

 

[oftheherd]

Many FSU cameras have light leak problems, especially the Kiev. A trip to the kiev Survival Site will help you pin that down and ... Oh, wait, you said Leica didn't you?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Sorry to hear of your problem. Hopefully it will be easier to diagnos when you are able to post photos. I would think any of the conditions mentioned above could equally be responsible. You may just have to start experimenting to get a better idea if it is a shutter problem or body light leak, or whatever. Good luck. It sounds very frustrating.

 

[zauhar]

Many FSU cameras have light leak problems, especially the Kiev. A trip to the kiev Survival Site will help you pin that down and ... Oh, wait, you said Leica didn't you?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Sorry to hear of your problem. Hopefully it will be easier to diagnos when you are able to post photos. I would think any of the conditions mentioned above could equally be responsible. You may just have to start experimenting to get a better idea if it is a shutter problem or body light leak, or whatever. Good luck. It sounds very frustrating.

Well, not too frustrating if I know what's going on.

If changing a lens with the noonday sun shining in fogs the film, then I won't do that!

I hope that is all it is. ;-(

Thanks!

Randy

 

[zauhar]

OK friends, here is an image of what is going on - three frames, the one in the middle obviously is messed up.

I DEFINITELY changed lens at the middle frame (switched from 50mm to 21mm), but there was NO bright sun - I was in our hotel room!

Have you seen this before?

Thanks!

Randy

P.S. One more hypothesis - for the lens change to have produced that fogging, the shutter would need to already be cocked, else it would have been the preceding frame that was messed up. It is very possible I cocked the shutter and then decided to change the lens. Would that explain anything?

 

[Leigh Youdale]

OK friends, here is an image of what is going on - three frames, the one in the middle obviously is messed up.

I DEFINITELY changed lens at the middle frame (switched from 50mm to 21mm), but there was NO bright sun - I was in our hotel room!

Have you seen this before?

One more hypothesis - for the lens change to have produced that fogging, the shutter would need to already be cocked, else it would have been the preceding frame that was messed up. It is very possible I cocked the shutter and then decided to change the lens. Would that explain anything?

There does not appear to be a second image (no double exposure with the lens on) which verifies the sequence you've described, but neither has there been enough light admitted to completely blank out the image on the middle frame. So it looks like a partial or limited light entry - not what you'd get in a full sunlight situation.

The fogging is curiously rectangular with fairly well-defined edges. It bleeds across the framelines of the negs either side of the one in the middle which is about what you'd expect if a fairly strong light source entered the film chamber - it leaked past the film gate edges.

At the same time, the fogging is narrower than the film gate. What is there about the inside of the camera with the lens off that would create that situation? That seems very odd and nothing I can think of explains that.

And the fogging (judging by the strips on the top and bottom of the horizontal frame) has apparently increased slightly from one side of the frame to the other. Not a lot, but it's visible. Anything to do with the frequency of fluorescent tubes in your room?

I'd suspect that the shutter had fired somehow. I would have expected you'd hear it, but maybe ambient noise (TV?) in the room concealed it. Maybe try to replicate it on your next roll with some 'sacrificial frames' and using the same shutter speed as the shot immediately before you remove the lens.

 

[zauhar]

There does not appear to be a second image (no double exposure with the lens on) which verifies the sequence you've described, but neither has there been enough light admitted to completely blank out the image on the middle frame. So it looks like a partial or limited light entry - not what you'd get in a full sunlight situation.

The fogging is curiously rectangular with fairly well-defined edges. It bleeds across the framelines of the negs either side of the one in the middle which is about what you'd expect if a fairly strong light source entered the film chamber - it leaked past the film gate edges.

At the same time, the fogging is narrower than the film gate. What is there about the inside of the camera with the lens off that would create that situation? That seems very odd and nothing I can think of explains that.

And the fogging (judging by the strips on the top and bottom of the horizontal frame) has apparently increased slightly from one side of the frame to the other. Not a lot, but it's visible. Anything to do with the frequency of fluorescent tubes in your room?

I'd suspect that the shutter had fired somehow. I would have expected you'd hear it, but maybe ambient noise (TV?) in the room concealed it. Maybe try to replicate it on your next roll with some 'sacrificial frames' and using the same shutter speed as the shot immediately before you remove the lens.

Leigh, thanks for the analysis. I am glad I am not missing something obvious, but upset that I don't know what's going on. I am quite certain the shutter did not fire. I am also sure I did not poke the shutter curtain. But, could this possibly have something to do with how far back the super angulon projects? I know it is close to the shutter, but I can't imagine I would not feel something "funny" happening if it contacted.

Last night I took the lens off, and watched the curtain as I cocked the shutter - it looked fine, nothing unusual seemed to be happening. I put the lens back on and took and indoor shot, I will see what I have when I develop.

Randy

 

[ferider]

Looks like you have a leak while cocking the shutter. Meaning there is a slit between the two curtains (similar to when shooting at 1/1000, just the reverse).

 

[zauhar]

Looks like you have a leak while cocking the shutter. Meaning there is a slit between the two curtains (similar to when shooting at 1/1000, just the reverse).

Thanks, in fact I wondered about that last night (even though I am pretty certain I did not cock the shutter while the lens was off). I did not notice anything amiss while the shutter was cocking, certainly no obvious slit.

Also, would that sort of light leak "bleed" over the edges of the frame?

Randy

 

[ferider]

Thanks, in fact I wondered about that last night (even though I am pretty certain I did not cock the shutter while the lens was off). I did not notice anything amiss while the shutter was cocking, certainly no obvious slit.

Also, would that sort of light leak "bleed" over the edges of the frame?

Randy

Could have happened with the lens on, Randy. Yes, it would, at least on one side, since the film is moving. Good luck !

 

[zauhar]

Could have happened with the lens on, Randy. Yes, it would, at least on one side, since the film is moving. Good luck !

Here is an off-the-wall idea - the rear of the superangulon sits close to the shutter. Could something be catching, so that the shutter is pulled apart while the film advances underneath?

But wouldn't I feel that - in a sort of catastrophic way? Also, wouldn't I see that all the time the 21mm was attached?

I am really puzzled by this. I am pretty much convinced that the lens change was somehow involved, but I may be fooling myself.

I need to finish off the roll currently in the camera so I can look from the back while advancing the film and get a better idea what might be happening.

Sigh... I have had multiple issues with this M3 already. But I really love it!

Thanks!

Randy

 

[Leigh Youdale]

I need to finish off the roll currently in the camera so I can look from the back while advancing the film and get a better idea what might be happening.
Randy

I think, with something like this, I wouldn't be waiting. I'd pull the roll now and process it. Maybe use the remaining frames to quickly try and replicate what you think might have happened.

One other thought. Is there any way that the film did not advance when you cocked the shutter on that frame?