Leica LTM Chassis serial number - which one?

[stu_jenkins]

I've stripped down my iiif so that I can do the necessary repairs, and I'm confused because there are two serial numbers on the chassis. It's got 582539 on the top plate above the sprocket shaft, which is the correct number for a 1951 iiif. It's also got 151091 under the hot shoe mount. If that's a serial number then it matches a 1935 Leica i. I know there were factory rebuilds, but surely not from a i to a iiif?

Which one is correct?

It needs new shutter curtains and a new beam splitter mirror for the rangefinder. I've got the parts, but I'm going to get the top cover re-engraved first because the last owner had removed the serial number for some reason. (There's nothing to make me suspect foul play, because I bought it direct from the same family.)

I've removed old blob of filler that was on there, and replaced it with Araldite, baked on while it cures. Baking makes it glass-clear and massively improves its hardness and adhesion to brass. I'll flat it back level with the top of the cover, making sure I don't damage the Leica logo. The engravers are confident about engraving straight into the Araldite, but they'll do a test first on a similarly-repaired piece of brass I've sent to them.

Before I go to the engravers, I'd like to be 100% sure I'm asking them to put the right number on there.

Many thanks in anticipation if you can advise about this.
🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

There are a lot of wicked / sensible people in this world who will make one out of two 'spares or repairs' cameras or anything else for that matter; just look at cars. Some keep this running for years as they add new broken ones to the stockpile and make up yet another one to sell as refurbished.

In the furniture trade it's easy to take three or four genuine antique chairs, take them completely to bits and copy enough for a few more and then re-assemble so that the new and old is mixed up. Any one checking one would assume a broken part had been replaced...

Regards, David

 

[xayraa33]

I would surmise that the lower number is just for the die-cast chassis numbering and not the actual serial number of the camera that is engraved on the outside top cover. The larger die-cast Leica body did not start being made till the late 1930s, for the IIIc and later bottomloader screwmount Leica camera models.


Note: here is an older RFF thread that shows photos of how the original Barnack Leicas were constructed, a IIIa in this case, but a simpler Leica I ( sans rangefinder of course) would be similarly made from a number of small parts on top of a separate top plate.


http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140485

 

[stu_jenkins]

I would surmise that the lower number is just for the die-cast chassis numbering]

I suspect you're right, although I haven'e been able to find another picture of the back of a disassembled iiif to confirm it. In the service manual the main body is listed as part no. 42-531-2, but given that many of the other part numbers begin 1510... it's not a big stretch of the imagination.
Thank you!

 

[stu_jenkins]

There are a lot of wicked / sensible people in this world who will make one out of two 'spares or repairs' cameras

Good point David, although I think that the choice between wicked or sensible depends on the camera and the intent.

Wicked would be deliberately mis-matching Leica serial numbers on the chassis and the top cover and not declaring it. I'd never do that, which is why I'm so keen to reinstate the correct number on my camera.

I do a lot of Canon AE1 refurbishments and they don't have a serial number on the chassis. Swapping a damaged top cover with a better one could potentially fall into the Sensible category in that case, even though it would effectively change the serial number of the camera.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Yes, I couldn't decide between wicked or sensible. It looks like a grey area where nothing is 100% clear cut. Wicked if you are passing it off as a pure IIIf but then would you know this if you didn't take it apart? Sensible if you are trying to keep as many old Leicas going as possible and then there's somewhere in between where the stockpile of old ones is added to and stripped down and the refurbished are sold. I guess it depends on the intention, work quality and so on.

The factory might have the casting numbers somewhere in the archives. In your shoes I'd ask them...

Regards, David

PS For this reason I often try and have a short chat with the technician whenever I get something sorted out. Often I get a pleasant surprise.

 

[Dralowid]

The one on the chassis top plate is the s/n, not the cast one on the accessory shoe mounting.