Larky
Well-known
Hi all.
I have missed some great shots because a child would have been in the frame, or it would have looked to outsiders like I was taking pictures of children. In the current climate we seem to have created whereby if you look at a child, you are obviously sick in the head, how do you all deal with this? I shoot from the hip as much as I can, but sometimes need to raise the camera to my eye.
Where I live in Norwich, the people are a little backwards and scared of people like me, the only technology the really understand is fast food, and so they are fast to complain. We also have more CCTV cameras than lamp posts, so you always get that feeling of being watched.
Does anyone else feel this, or am I being paranoid and should I just forget it all, put the iPod on loud and ignore everyone?
A.
I have missed some great shots because a child would have been in the frame, or it would have looked to outsiders like I was taking pictures of children. In the current climate we seem to have created whereby if you look at a child, you are obviously sick in the head, how do you all deal with this? I shoot from the hip as much as I can, but sometimes need to raise the camera to my eye.
Where I live in Norwich, the people are a little backwards and scared of people like me, the only technology the really understand is fast food, and so they are fast to complain. We also have more CCTV cameras than lamp posts, so you always get that feeling of being watched.
Does anyone else feel this, or am I being paranoid and should I just forget it all, put the iPod on loud and ignore everyone?
A.
peterm1
Veteran
Pretty much. I am very careful about this. I only feel comfortable if my wife is by my side. People are so damn paranoid these days it makes me paranoid.
flippyot
Vagabond
The most uncomfortable time I've had taking picture (shooting sounds wrong in this situation) was during a crafts event at a Santa Toyshop. The parents knew I would be taking pictures but they made me feel uncomfortable with their stares as I tired ot capture the moments where kids were just being kids and having fun with glue and glitter.
I ended up passing my camera off to a female friend and joined the dads in the smoke pit.
I ended up passing my camera off to a female friend and joined the dads in the smoke pit.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
During the summer months I attend a lot of steam rallies and fairs, my wife walks around with her p+s digicam taking great pics of sooty faced kids climbing on and tending engines, if I attempt similar shots,-maybe fifty yards away-Ive had hostile looks from the adults, so now I just stick to the scenery and machines!! 
Dave,
Dave,
Johnmcd
Well-known
I know exactly where you are coming from. Since my son was 10, I have been shooting all his soccer matches (he is now 15). The parents of his team mates think it's great, as I make sure that all the guys in the team are photographed during the year and it has made for some nice framed presentation photos at the end of year.
But sometimes the feeling of suspicion from others at the field is almost palpable.
Only one time did it piss me off enough to make me stop. While I was taking shots from next to the goal mouth a typical middle aged 'busy body' official from the other club approached me and asked if I was a professional - no doubt due to my large white Canon lens. I said no, and that my son was playing in the other team. She then said, 'Oh that's alright then as we don't normally allow people to photograph the kids playing'. Well I had, had enough. I told her that even if my son was not playing, this is a public place and there was nothing she could do to stop me taking photos, no matter what 'they' had decided. She then left in a huff. I took a couple more, lost interest and joined my wife at the side of the field.
It is ridiculous! If somebody wanted pictures of kids, they can get them delivered to their door every second day in the form of a K-Mart catalogue - why would they bother taking them themself?
Last week I was talking to another father while the boys were playing cricket. We were both taking photos and discussing the very same topic. He told me of the time he was photographing his daughter at netball. When they told 'the man with the camera' to stop taking pictures over the PA system. He took a few more before he realised they meant him! You can just imagine the hysteria - young girls jumping around short skirts!
So what happens now when a proud Dad wants to take photos of his daughter?
John
But sometimes the feeling of suspicion from others at the field is almost palpable.
Only one time did it piss me off enough to make me stop. While I was taking shots from next to the goal mouth a typical middle aged 'busy body' official from the other club approached me and asked if I was a professional - no doubt due to my large white Canon lens. I said no, and that my son was playing in the other team. She then said, 'Oh that's alright then as we don't normally allow people to photograph the kids playing'. Well I had, had enough. I told her that even if my son was not playing, this is a public place and there was nothing she could do to stop me taking photos, no matter what 'they' had decided. She then left in a huff. I took a couple more, lost interest and joined my wife at the side of the field.
It is ridiculous! If somebody wanted pictures of kids, they can get them delivered to their door every second day in the form of a K-Mart catalogue - why would they bother taking them themself?
Last week I was talking to another father while the boys were playing cricket. We were both taking photos and discussing the very same topic. He told me of the time he was photographing his daughter at netball. When they told 'the man with the camera' to stop taking pictures over the PA system. He took a few more before he realised they meant him! You can just imagine the hysteria - young girls jumping around short skirts!
So what happens now when a proud Dad wants to take photos of his daughter?
John
Peter_Jones
Well-known
I was picking my younger kids up from primary school before Christmas and one of the mothers had a Canon DSLR over her shoulder. What went through my head was "What would happen if it was ME with a camera in a school playground ?"
Also , it this something that only occurs in the English-speaking world, or is this a worldwide phenomenon accross all cultures ?
Also , it this something that only occurs in the English-speaking world, or is this a worldwide phenomenon accross all cultures ?
Yes and no. As my partner in crime is a 7 year old I often am taking pictures of him, and when we are out exploring, his new "friends" are included. Because of this parental environment, I will take some shots of other kids, often with an acknowledgement or nod to a parent who aways smiles their permission. I would not just go out myself photographing children, unless with specific acknowledgement of a parent though. I don't think I would be comfortable if my son was photographed without my knowledge, in an open public place, so I offer that courtesy to others.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Take a look at the thread about street photography and age, which has addressed this at enormous length.Peter_Jones said:
From my own observations (I live in France; have lived as an adult in the UK and the USA; and travel extensively) it is principally a problem in those countries which the French rather inaccurately call 'les Anglo-Saxons', i.e. UK/USA and to a lesser extent Australia and possibly New Zealand.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Just a thought here -- and I'm not trying to be a smart-arse -- if he was photographed without your knowledge, how would you know? I suppose he might tell you, but unless he'd been brought up to be paranoid about cameras (which seems unlikely in the case of your son) he'd probably not think it worth mentioning.rover said:
Cheers,
R.
Johnmcd
Well-known
And it is not just taking photos.
A case in point is my father-in-law and he and I have discussed this in the past. He is now 66 years old and ex-army - tough as nails. He absolutely dotes on his grandchildren and has always loved to watch them play since they were very little - taking genuine enjoyment in their innocent play.
Now what if he was in a park and sat down one day and happened to smile as some kids played nearby. The bottom line is that he just could not do it!
Having said that any 'grandma' could...
A case in point is my father-in-law and he and I have discussed this in the past. He is now 66 years old and ex-army - tough as nails. He absolutely dotes on his grandchildren and has always loved to watch them play since they were very little - taking genuine enjoyment in their innocent play.
Now what if he was in a park and sat down one day and happened to smile as some kids played nearby. The bottom line is that he just could not do it!
Having said that any 'grandma' could...
At playgrounds, I have a lot of kids that come up to me and yelp "Take my Picture!" I do, but do not post them on the Internet. I've posted some "old" pictures of kids. Some of them would be almost 40 by now, but that is an extreme.
At Nikki's school playground, I was asked to give some of my pictures to the editor of the school yearbook. They used them. Although, not the ones in Color Infrared.
At Nikki's school playground, I was asked to give some of my pictures to the editor of the school yearbook. They used them. Although, not the ones in Color Infrared.
Roger Hicks said:
Truth is, if he is in public, he will not be alone. He is 7. So, chances are I/someone will see and know, at which time I would play parent. Which, who knows what that involves? I just make stuff up as I go along most of the time.
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Don't misunderstand, there is no "fear" of strangers. Just an interest in who and what my child is experiencing, and a parental "need to know." I would most likely in a friendly way introduce myself to said stranger and strick up a converstion about photography.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I saw what would have made a great shot on Sunday, four kids having a big snow battle across the alley, they all seemed to be completely exhausted and were negotiating an 'end to hostilities', drawing lines in the snow as to what part of the mutual alley was to be who's. What would hav made the image was the kid sneaking around the woodshed with a pair of snowballs. I just watched as I walked by, not daring to even let myself touch the camera. I avoid making pictures with anybody I don't know in them, kids especially.
My daughter played soccer for the first time this summer, every time I was there with a camera I made some images, but with trepidation. Sad really.
My daughter played soccer for the first time this summer, every time I was there with a camera I made some images, but with trepidation. Sad really.
IGMeanwell
Well-known
I can completely understand the worries of today's parents; my sisters are definitely among those who frown on anyone pointing a camera (they don't know) near my nieces and nephews ... in fact you'll never see a public photo of any of those children where they are recognizable on my website (requested by my family and I never protest)
But this brings up a funny story:
At a recent wedding where I was an usher but also a backup photographer, loaded with my bag my Fuji S5 and a couple lenses .... its after the ceremony and we are all taking formals in the lobby of a hotel. Both my nieces were flower-girls, at one point I am instructing the youngest (3 years old) to do some portraits and she is being very well behaved, so after I lean over give her a hug and a kiss for being a good sport then let her go off to get a snack.
I hear this gasp as she walks a way, a woman who only showed up for the reception and not the ceremony, did not know who I was and only saw the DSLR; started to say something to me and my brother-in-law's mother stopped her "Its her uncle, he just happens to be one of the photographers as well as in the party" and my brother-in-law (who was helping me with his daughters) looked at this woman like she was crazy. I laughed it off ... but it actually bothered me that this woman automatically assumed a wedding photographer would show physical affection to a 3 year old girl?
I guess some just assume the worst
But this brings up a funny story:
At a recent wedding where I was an usher but also a backup photographer, loaded with my bag my Fuji S5 and a couple lenses .... its after the ceremony and we are all taking formals in the lobby of a hotel. Both my nieces were flower-girls, at one point I am instructing the youngest (3 years old) to do some portraits and she is being very well behaved, so after I lean over give her a hug and a kiss for being a good sport then let her go off to get a snack.
I hear this gasp as she walks a way, a woman who only showed up for the reception and not the ceremony, did not know who I was and only saw the DSLR; started to say something to me and my brother-in-law's mother stopped her "Its her uncle, he just happens to be one of the photographers as well as in the party" and my brother-in-law (who was helping me with his daughters) looked at this woman like she was crazy. I laughed it off ... but it actually bothered me that this woman automatically assumed a wedding photographer would show physical affection to a 3 year old girl?
I guess some just assume the worst
myoptic3
Well-known
While this is surely a sign of these ultra police-like times, fostered mostly from mass media fear mongering and, let's face it, the internet, I have to admit that this is a fundamental problem w/ public photography. I know that I do not like someone taking a picture of me, and this is how I have felt since before 911. The feeling is, why is he/she taking a picture of me? Who are they? What are they going to DO w/ my picture? It has worsened because these days everyone and their mother is running around w/ SLR's and zoom lenses. It used to be you assumed they were a professional or a hobbyist (terrible word), so it wasn't as bad. If I were sitting in a coffeteria and sketching someone at a table, even a child, there wouldn't be any problem. I would be seen as a "good guy". Which is odd, as it has been artists (painters, sculptors, etc) who have traditionally been revolutionaries and enemies of the status quo. Photography has that documentary aspect to it, along w/ the voyeur aspect, along w/ the spy aspect. Too much baggage. Imagine McLarren sending someone to go spy on Ferrari armed w/ a sketch pad and a #2 pencil. Or some prevert trying to add to his collection by whipping out his charcoal and sketching madly away. That's art!
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ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Pitxu said:
Well said, and exactly the same here.
There is no fear; just friendship.
Kids walk to school, and to swimming etc.
Young women walk home alone from a night club.
There is no danger whatsoever from any sort of wrongdoing, and no suspicion of a guy with a camera.
V
varjag
Guest
People are afraid of all sort of things, some fears get publicly reinforced and go into and out of attention. Noone's scared of martians, punks or commies anymore, drug dealers are on their way out, but fearing terrorism and perverts is hip.
My pet theory is that societies can't reliably sustain more than two or three strong fears simultaneously, so what we photographers can do is to put an effort towards raise of alternate phobias. I propose to start with arachibutyrophobia.. google it!. Let's make a man with jar of peanut butter look sinister, not us camera users!
My pet theory is that societies can't reliably sustain more than two or three strong fears simultaneously, so what we photographers can do is to put an effort towards raise of alternate phobias. I propose to start with arachibutyrophobia.. google it!. Let's make a man with jar of peanut butter look sinister, not us camera users!
Pitxu said:
I would only substitute your word "least" with "one".
No arguments
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, I'd think that anyone who walked around carrying a jar of peanut butter in such a prominent way that everyone could see it probably WAS a bit sinister...varjag said:
More seriously, I had not previously considered your excellent point about constantly renewing the target for obsessive worry. Sooner or later, even the stupidest and most parochial societies begin to realize that hey, maybe we aren't going to be eaten alive by martians or commies. Those whose interests are best served by keeping people frightened then have to invent a new bogeyman.
Cheers,
R.