Thea
Established
Hi
I think its a very valid point raised. Basically use your common sense.
On the whole I dont take photos of kids, (other than my own) and at uni (In UK) we are adviced not to take photos of children without parents permission.
If you want to work with children photographically it is sensible to get police checked - after all you would expect anyone else working with kids to be fully checked in every area, wouldnt you?
I think its a very valid point raised. Basically use your common sense.
On the whole I dont take photos of kids, (other than my own) and at uni (In UK) we are adviced not to take photos of children without parents permission.
If you want to work with children photographically it is sensible to get police checked - after all you would expect anyone else working with kids to be fully checked in every area, wouldnt you?
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
Yes I do take! If they are important for the subject.
I really got asked too any times to take pictures from kids that I don't even know.
The problem here is the Fear Factor. It has been raised so people get paralyzed (brain) and fear anything they don't know or understand... and that for a purpose they don't even realize.
Of course what else is more important to anyone.. his own children.. right, right lets keep the momentum shall we?
Wthat's next on the fear list? Ah yes, religion.. right, right! Let's see...
I really got asked too any times to take pictures from kids that I don't even know.
The problem here is the Fear Factor. It has been raised so people get paralyzed (brain) and fear anything they don't know or understand... and that for a purpose they don't even realize.
Of course what else is more important to anyone.. his own children.. right, right lets keep the momentum shall we?
Wthat's next on the fear list? Ah yes, religion.. right, right! Let's see...
Larky
Well-known
Funny, I just got rollocked by a load of kids for taking a shot! Never again in this country will I shoot a shot if a child is in frame, it's not worth the grief. We get treated like we are sick in the head, it's mental.
Anyway, I gave them my card and explained if they had an issue they could get the parents to call me, I know I shouldn't have to but I have done nothing wrong and I'm not going to hide. But, I am going to be more picky about a shot from now on.
Anyway, I gave them my card and explained if they had an issue they could get the parents to call me, I know I shouldn't have to but I have done nothing wrong and I'm not going to hide. But, I am going to be more picky about a shot from now on.
john_s
Well-known
I was recently invited to be a spectator at the Australian speed skating championships. The invitation warned that photographing junior level skaters was not allowed, though one could get permission to film one's own child's races. Funny thing is, when I was an active skater (1970s) I used my father's Bolex 16mm movie camera to film races and today these films are highly prized, especially by the competitors who were juniors at the time and are now parents (or even grandparents). (Some are on Kodachrome which makes them even more special). I am a passionate historian and archivist and I value highly the films/photos of previous times. It's a pity the future generations are going to miss out on certain documentary material.
Johnmcd
Well-known
Just happened again.
Shooting my son playing cricket. Hardly a child though, Under 16's. Anyway, I'm sitting down on the boundary line with a 20D and 300 F4 on a monopod. I've been shooting for about 15 min when the other team's coach ambles over from where he was standing with other parents and stands just behind me.
He says nothing for a couple of minutes and then asks if I'm from the newspaper. I say no, and then ask him if he was expecting them. He answers no, then hesitates, he wants to say more but I imagine he doesn't know a nice way to ask me if I'm a paedophile.
I let him sweat for another couple of minutes before I say that I am photographing my son who is batting. He seems relieved and asks which kid it is. He then says half apologetically that he was just asking me because of the 'law'. I tell him I am not aware of any law that forbids a person to take a photo in a public place. He stutters for a moment and and I continue by saying that while I would always be careful not to take a photo of anyone who obviously did not want their photo taken, there is no law that says I can't.
He walked away and I continued to take photos. Did it ruin my day - YES!
0.1% of the population might be paedophiles, the other 99.9% of us have to put up with this 'vigilante' ****e.
I suggest this would not have been an issue 20 years ago. That said, what does the future hold? Will I have to have ID to prove I'm the father and a stat dec from each parent giving me a release to photo their kid as well?
John
Shooting my son playing cricket. Hardly a child though, Under 16's. Anyway, I'm sitting down on the boundary line with a 20D and 300 F4 on a monopod. I've been shooting for about 15 min when the other team's coach ambles over from where he was standing with other parents and stands just behind me.
He says nothing for a couple of minutes and then asks if I'm from the newspaper. I say no, and then ask him if he was expecting them. He answers no, then hesitates, he wants to say more but I imagine he doesn't know a nice way to ask me if I'm a paedophile.
I let him sweat for another couple of minutes before I say that I am photographing my son who is batting. He seems relieved and asks which kid it is. He then says half apologetically that he was just asking me because of the 'law'. I tell him I am not aware of any law that forbids a person to take a photo in a public place. He stutters for a moment and and I continue by saying that while I would always be careful not to take a photo of anyone who obviously did not want their photo taken, there is no law that says I can't.
He walked away and I continued to take photos. Did it ruin my day - YES!
0.1% of the population might be paedophiles, the other 99.9% of us have to put up with this 'vigilante' ****e.
I suggest this would not have been an issue 20 years ago. That said, what does the future hold? Will I have to have ID to prove I'm the father and a stat dec from each parent giving me a release to photo their kid as well?
John
migtex
Don't eXchange Freedom!
Ok. I'm gonna make some T-Shirt's saying
Thank you!
on the back!
Oh sure I will do it!
Anyone want one?
I'm NOT a Terrorist!
I'm NOT a Pedophile"
I'm just a Photographer
I'm NOT a Pedophile"
I'm just a Photographer
Thank you!
on the back!
Oh sure I will do it!
Anyone want one?
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Johnmcd said:
Sorry to hear that. And I can imagine how you feel.
But why hould only parents be allowed to photograph a child anyway?
If I wanted a photo for the Magic Roll 'Recreational Activities' theme this month I may well head down to a local sports club.
In fact the sports club, kids and adults, recently asked for photos they could use in their publicity.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
A friend of mine has a t-shirt with 'Film Crew' on the back.
I was already thinking of getting some with 'Photographer' on the back in big letters.
I was already thinking of getting some with 'Photographer' on the back in big letters.
Lol999
Member
I'm increasingly photographing children in my street shots because unlike adults, all buttoned up and repressed, they are expressive and uninhibited and make for some good photographs. keep photographing the little darlings and let's put an end to this nonsense.
Cheers, Lol
Cheers, Lol
Spider67
Well-known
Bulgaria: Kids climbing on an old tank. Photos made, made a glance sideways where I saw the kids father nodding in a very friendly manner.
Vienna: Shooting aawy in the court of a museum, many people, many children one of them runs right into my pic and excuses himself for ruining the image stupid me answers "Never mind the pic will just be better" Kind running to his father, father eyes me suspiciously. Is this the lesson to learn: "Hey Mister you stuppid brat just ruined my pic I'm a photog and I am sueing you flat broke my friend!"
On the other hand: The dangerous pedophile is nearly always a relative or a close friend of the family. I think much harm is done by TV series that always show pedophile getting the kick from harmless children photography (of course they cannot show what the real problem is). I still remember when we were warned from the friendly stranger waiting in front of the school. Nobody warned us from the nice "uncle" or the young guy who always liked to play with children half his age.
Vienna: Shooting aawy in the court of a museum, many people, many children one of them runs right into my pic and excuses himself for ruining the image stupid me answers "Never mind the pic will just be better" Kind running to his father, father eyes me suspiciously. Is this the lesson to learn: "Hey Mister you stuppid brat just ruined my pic I'm a photog and I am sueing you flat broke my friend!"
On the other hand: The dangerous pedophile is nearly always a relative or a close friend of the family. I think much harm is done by TV series that always show pedophile getting the kick from harmless children photography (of course they cannot show what the real problem is). I still remember when we were warned from the friendly stranger waiting in front of the school. Nobody warned us from the nice "uncle" or the young guy who always liked to play with children half his age.
Larky
Well-known
I want a T-Shirt and a Hoody making that states I'm a photographer. I'm also going to make up an ID stating that I am a photographer and wear it in plain sight. Actually, it might be good to get a non-profit organisation sorted that we can all register with and you get an ID badge. I am a lecturer, have been CIB checked and am legally allowed to work, alone, with children of any age as well as anybody considered vulnerable. And yet I have to go through this crap every time I want to go shooting. It's nuts.
But yeah, I'll look into the anti-peado photographer association!
Actually, I spoke to my boss today and she thinks it would make a great exhibition, the entire not allowed to document anything anymore, unless it's a bloody poem or sonnet or Hawaiian Chutney Dance.
But yeah, I'll look into the anti-peado photographer association!
Actually, I spoke to my boss today and she thinks it would make a great exhibition, the entire not allowed to document anything anymore, unless it's a bloody poem or sonnet or Hawaiian Chutney Dance.
Johnmcd
Well-known
Spider67 said:
Too true!
Like I said earlier, if you were a paedophile, why bother taking photos and risking the ire of the public when you can wait at home for the local supermarket chain to regularly deliver a catalouge full of young childeren in various clothing including underwear and swimwear right to your door for free. Have they ever been accused of peddling 'child porn'? For crying out loud, why wouldn't the paedophile just get a subsciption to any number of women's / family magazines. Full colour, back to back photos of kids for a couple of bucks!
Taking this all too far? Of course I am, but what's the difference? It just shows how absolutely ridiculous this whole 'images of children' thing has got.
John
sjw617
Panoramist
I think making a T-shirt will call more attention to you and create more trouble for you. Making your own "ID" card may raise legal issues with police.
Johnmcd
Well-known
ClaremontPhoto said:
The funny thing is Jon, that if I stood 70m away and held up a P&S and clumsily took a couple of shots then ohhhh, ahhhh'd at the tiny far away players that I just captured, no one would think anything of it. Likewise if I did it with a mobile phone.
But if I have some serious photo gear, I'm either from the newspaper or a pervert!
I'm with you on this one - children are and always will be great subjects and it's about time people started looking at this without the emotional paranoia. And this comes from a father of three of the most photographed children ever
Cheers,
John
raid
Dad Photographer
I was with my family at a childrens' fair. As I was walking around with my camera, I could swear that a man was following me for about ten minutes. When I then stood with my wife and two daughters, he gave me a last look and then walked away. It makes people uncomfortable to see a man with a camera when there are many children around.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
"I notice that you have been following me for the last ten minutes. May I inquire why? Is there something wrong with my face? Are you homosexual?"raid said:
Philipp
raid
Dad Photographer
rxmd said:
Philipp,
I was walking alone for a while, and I noticed the looks.
Gay or security ? No clue.
williams473
Well-known
I think this is a broder concern you have for what people are thinking of you when shooting in public. I know what you mean about being sensitive to people's suspicions, but that's just part of working on the street the way I see it. I've been detained by police, questioned by any number of people, and nearly beat senseless a couple of times were it not for quick feet - people just don't like us out there sometimes.
"Who are you with?"
"Myself."
"What are you shooting for."
"I'm an artist."
That's my story - most people can't wrap their head around an "artist" meandering around with a camera anyway, and you're off the hook.
For me and my photography, children are one of my favorite subjects. Some of my best images have been of children. I have four kids, so I see a lot of meaning that other children bring into the world and by extenasion, my work. They are a truly wonderful subject.
Unfortunately any creep that wants to take pictures of children to satisfy a sick fetish is going to do it, and there's really no stopping it. And it's hard to explain to someone that we're not up to something like that. But, I would just approach it like I do any time I work on the street. If I see an image I TAKE it. It's mine. I don't act shifty or try to "sneak" an image. Granted, I don't go out of my way to be beligerant or obtrusive, but I'll definately stare you down with the lens, take your picture and walk off without explanation.
I read a long time ago and employ it routinely the words of Alfred Eisenstadt, who used to get in to all kinds of closed-door type events by dressing up, and just going like he owned the place. If you act sneaky, people assume you're up to something. If you act up front, people assume you are there and shooting for a purpose. Occasionally, people will still take exception, and that's just too bad.
So I guess it all comes down to: are photos of children what you're after? For me, the answer is that children who enter my frame are fair game, and avoiding them would be to edit myself while shooting, and I just won't do that. If you are missing photos because of a fear of what other people are thinking, that's a shame, but believe me I understand it.
"Who are you with?"
"Myself."
"What are you shooting for."
"I'm an artist."
That's my story - most people can't wrap their head around an "artist" meandering around with a camera anyway, and you're off the hook.
For me and my photography, children are one of my favorite subjects. Some of my best images have been of children. I have four kids, so I see a lot of meaning that other children bring into the world and by extenasion, my work. They are a truly wonderful subject.
Unfortunately any creep that wants to take pictures of children to satisfy a sick fetish is going to do it, and there's really no stopping it. And it's hard to explain to someone that we're not up to something like that. But, I would just approach it like I do any time I work on the street. If I see an image I TAKE it. It's mine. I don't act shifty or try to "sneak" an image. Granted, I don't go out of my way to be beligerant or obtrusive, but I'll definately stare you down with the lens, take your picture and walk off without explanation.
I read a long time ago and employ it routinely the words of Alfred Eisenstadt, who used to get in to all kinds of closed-door type events by dressing up, and just going like he owned the place. If you act sneaky, people assume you're up to something. If you act up front, people assume you are there and shooting for a purpose. Occasionally, people will still take exception, and that's just too bad.
So I guess it all comes down to: are photos of children what you're after? For me, the answer is that children who enter my frame are fair game, and avoiding them would be to edit myself while shooting, and I just won't do that. If you are missing photos because of a fear of what other people are thinking, that's a shame, but believe me I understand it.
kuzano
Veteran
Well, I'll let you know how I feel @ 11PM tonite
Well, I'll let you know how I feel @ 11PM tonite
For over a week now, our local news people on TV have been loudly announcing that there are over 700 registered sex offenders living in our community (80K population). So tonight at 10 PM there is the first of a series of one hour programs on the subject.
Well, I'll let you know how I feel @ 11PM tonite
For over a week now, our local news people on TV have been loudly announcing that there are over 700 registered sex offenders living in our community (80K population). So tonight at 10 PM there is the first of a series of one hour programs on the subject.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
williams473 said:
Many years ago as a poor student I used to eat in Harrods' staff restaurant just by walking right in through the door like I was staff.
Worked every time.
Late at night I did the same at the Daily Express newspaper office, but the food wasn't as good.