zhang xk
Well-known
Will said:
Will,
I feel China can make some very good lenses such as the 1000/f8 mirror and those cine optics.
China made binoculars with Zeiss logos many years ago and now supply microscope objectives and components for big brand German makers.
Many optical factories also produce military products. Camera factories only make low cost civilian products.
zhang xk
Well-known
Will
Well-known
Zhang,
Something interesting..
From Kilfitt, West Germany
1.) 240mm f/1.2 http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/fast.html
2.) 180mm f/1.3 http://www.cameraquest.com/zoomar13.htm
Will
Something interesting..
From Kilfitt, West Germany
1.) 240mm f/1.2 http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/fast.html
2.) 180mm f/1.3 http://www.cameraquest.com/zoomar13.htm
Will
Attachments
zhang xk
Well-known
Seagull 50/3.5 1:1 macro and 700mm F11 process lenses
Seagull 50/3.5 1:1 macro and 700mm F11 process lenses
Hi will,
Thanks. These are very interesting and unique lenses.
I hope they are not very expensive. I think my 1000mm F8 mirror and 35mm sine zoom equal them in rarity.
Here is a very rare Seagull 50/3.5 macro lens. It focus from 0.15mm and it is a true 1:1 macro photo lens. It has a MD mount.
Another one is also a very uncommon Xihu (west lake) brand process lens.
Seagull 50/3.5 1:1 macro and 700mm F11 process lenses
Hi will,
Thanks. These are very interesting and unique lenses.
I hope they are not very expensive. I think my 1000mm F8 mirror and 35mm sine zoom equal them in rarity. Here is a very rare Seagull 50/3.5 macro lens. It focus from 0.15mm and it is a true 1:1 macro photo lens. It has a MD mount.
Another one is also a very uncommon Xihu (west lake) brand process lens.
Attachments
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Will said:
Will, have a look at this brilliant hoax (which I fell for
): http://www.rokkorfiles.com/digital.htmThe Seagull d55 could so easily be the future! If only!
Cheers, Ian
Will
Well-known
Jocko said:Will, have a look at this brilliant hoax (which I fell for
The Seagull d55 could so easily be the future! If only!
Cheers, Ian
Ian,
I saw both the real camera on a japanese webpage and that april fool jokes before. Haven't really see DF5000 (the real film SLR) in real life, but would like to give it a try in a camera shop.
http://elefoto.hp.infoseek.co.jp/SEAGULL/index.html
zhang xk said:Hi will,
Thanks. These are very interesting and unique lenses.
Here is a very rare Seagull 50/3.5 macro lens. It focus from 0.15mm and it is a true 1:1 macro photo lens. It has a MD mount.
Another one is also a very uncommon Xihu (west lake) brand process lens.
I think you are right, Zhang.
700mm lens, what do they shoot?
Zhang, check this out:
http://www.tmboptical.com/itemsGrid.asp?cat_id=27
also check out that guy's ideal in lens design (telescope):
http://www.tmboptical.com/documents/tmbFAQ.pdf
Last edited:
zhang xk
Well-known
Will said:
Will,
I am shocked at his prices! A few pieces of glasss could cost $35,000.00?! What is so special about these optics? Apochromat is quite common for microscope objectives. But a top quality Zeiss Planapochromat objective could also cost well above $10,000.00!
I heard that a Chinese optical factory in Sichuan province could make very large aspherical lens elements with a special manufacturing process, and it is the first such manufacturer in Asia! Many European and Japanese companies bought lens elements from this factory. I will see if I can locate the source for this information.
And here is another rare vintage Chinese camera, the one of a kind Dong Feng EF-1 120 SLR made by Beijing Camera Factory.
Cheers,
Zhang
Attachments
zhang xk
Well-known
A HD! Someone is selling one of these Red Flag 20. But the price....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Red-Flag-20-1-4...3QQihZ018QQcategoryZ30063QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Red-Flag-20-1-4...3QQihZ018QQcategoryZ30063QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
I don't know why but I think of LZOS, Lytkarino. Still , the prices are soooo expensive!
J-Paul
Member
Hello every one,
and especially to Zhang friend, initiator of this discussion.
First of all, one thousand sorry for my very bad English language, but I am French, and since Napoleon, a lot of French don't know English language anymore... :bang:
Do you know these cameras and especailly the very nice PHENIX JG 50 ?
http://cameraquest.com/yasu2.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhp.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhara_phenix_jg50.htm
After the RED FLAG 20 for the 20s',birthday, this is this camera for the 50s'-
Best regards
JP
If you want, I have many informations for thez Red Flag 20. But with my bad English Labguage It's not easy. Can I try this ? :angel:
and especially to Zhang friend, initiator of this discussion.
First of all, one thousand sorry for my very bad English language, but I am French, and since Napoleon, a lot of French don't know English language anymore...
:bang: Do you know these cameras and especailly the very nice PHENIX JG 50 ?
http://cameraquest.com/yasu2.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhp.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhara_phenix_jg50.htm
After the RED FLAG 20 for the 20s',birthday, this is this camera for the 50s'-
Best regards
JP
If you want, I have many informations for thez Red Flag 20. But with my bad English Labguage It's not easy. Can I try this ? :angel:
zhang xk
Well-known
J-Paul said:Hello every one,
and especially to Zhang friend, initiator of this discussion.
First of all, one thousand sorry for my very bad English language, but I am French, and since Napoleon, a lot of French don't know English language anymore...
Do you know these cameras and especailly the very nice PHENIX JG 50 ?
http://cameraquest.com/yasu2.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhp.htm
http://cameraquest.com/yasuhara_phenix_jg50.htm
After the RED FLAG 20 for the 20s',birthday, this is this camera for the 50s'-
Best regards
JP
If you want, I have many informations for thez Red Flag 20. But with my bad English Labguage It's not easy. Can I try this ? :angel:
Hello J-paul,
Thanks for your interest in this thread. Sorry I don't have this JG-50. I think it is based on a SLR chasis (a Chinese version of the Yashica FX-3). IIRC, it has a double leaf shutter to prevent it from light leak. It was sold for about $700 which was a bit too high for such a camera.
I don't have a RED FLAG 20 either, It was already too expensive before I had a chance.:bang: I believe everyone will be interested in those information about Red Flag 20s.
Cheers,
Zhang
zhang xk
Well-known
Hello everyone,
The never ending story of Chinese optical products. Here is a strange 16mm F1.6 lens that covers 35mm cine format, but it has a very unique lens mount. It is not a fisheye. I think it can be modefied to fit a RD-1 type camera. Those Zeiss and Leitz 16mm lenses are too expensive and much slower. This lens appears to be very contrasty and sharp.
I also spotted a huge mirror lens with a front lens element of 250mm! The lens is 600mm long, and I heard it was used on one of the Chinese satelites.
Cheers,
Zhang
The never ending story of Chinese optical products. Here is a strange 16mm F1.6 lens that covers 35mm cine format, but it has a very unique lens mount. It is not a fisheye. I think it can be modefied to fit a RD-1 type camera. Those Zeiss and Leitz 16mm lenses are too expensive and much slower.
This lens appears to be very contrasty and sharp. I also spotted a huge mirror lens with a front lens element of 250mm! The lens is 600mm long, and I heard it was used on one of the Chinese satelites.
Cheers,
Zhang
Attachments
J-Paul
Member
Zhang say : "I believe everyone will be interested in those information about Red Flag 20s."
I go...
I try post photo
I go...
Hello every one,
and especially to Zhang friend, initiator of this discussion.
First of all, one thousand sorry for my very poor English language….
One speaks, indeed, very rarely of this famous RED FLAG 20 and I
thank Zhang of him to have made.
thank Zhang of him to have made.
I also thank Zhang for the unknown photographic cameras that he makes us discover. Very beautiful and interesting Chinese cameras !!!
I think, to be able perhaps to answer some of your questions on this mythic camera
I had luck, indeed, to meet and to question for a long time on this topic, about fifteen year ago, a very aware French on China of periods 70 - 80.
He had was, during this period, exclusive importer of Chinese machine-tools and camera bottoms of range ( maybe Seagull ???) , for France and very bound with the Chinese authorities of the time. Its firm name was C.C.M to Paris.
He had was, during this period, exclusive importer of Chinese machine-tools and camera bottoms of range ( maybe Seagull ???) , for France and very bound with the Chinese authorities of the time. Its firm name was C.C.M to Paris.
Hoping not to be too long, here are some answers to the calm questions, that I can give here, according to this man's confidences, that I will call here " MX ", which was, in my opinion, very aware:
- MX confirmed me, that it was well Mrs. Chiang ( Jiang ) Ching, Mao's 4th woman, who had given the order to put in construction a camera, that would be technologically better than the Leica M4 and M5.
- In fact, she would have given the order to the engineers of the factory Shanghai C.F. to manufacture just… " The best Camera of the world "; with lenses as good as the best of at Leica. This idea seen the day at the summer 1969. MX doesn't have the memory that one told him that that wanted to say the " 20 " of RF20. Why not, indeed the 20th birthday of the revolution of 49?
Between 69 and 73, it will be necessary 4 years to make the 1st body.
Between 69 and 73, it will be necessary 4 years to make the 1st body.
- MX didn't know anything of supposed it photographic passion of Mrs. CC.
- MX assured me that in the notebook of the loads, the factor " cost " had to not be on any account a problem and that dice its survey, the RF20 didn't have to besides, ever to be merchandised. It had to be rightly a window of high technology, in order to prove to the whole world, that China was capable to produce objects of high technology, the best of the world.
- It also had to, to be offered, as gift for guests of mark. Fidel Castro, Tito and I.Gandi would have received one of it in " case ". I will come back there later... and in gifts " of honor" to the politicians, policies/military of high ranks and maybe savants…
- According to MX, since China had to convince the west as well that the Orient, of its supremacy, the chosen shape, characteristic of the device was a mixture of Leica M4-5 and Cannon 7. The " look " of the device becoming thus " universal ".
- Use chosen of the lenses Leica bayonet " M " , prevented all import and merchandising, because patent rights, in most countries and in particular the industrialized western countries, more Japan. So the RF20 was in fact, unmarketable outside China. But MX have never see a RF20 to buy into (????) or outside China.
- For what concerns the produced quantities, MX informed me that one had told him that he had been manufactured 198 bodies - for all product in 1973.
- 198 x 1.4/50 lenses made between 1973 and 1974
and 72 x 1.4/35 and 2/90 between 1974 and 1975.
- Contrary to what is sometimes said, MX , as never sensible to speak of the construction of a scientific case without view-rangefinder
- Rigid “ case " made of black leather, stamped of the acronym gold RED FLAG 20, with the inside made of red velvet would have been produced according to the needs for prestigious gifts. About 30 would have been produced. These cases could contain the body and its 3 lenses, the sites for 10 circular filters and a pitfall to accommodate 4 X 35mm films in them limp.
- It also had to, to be offered, as gift for guests of mark. Fidel Castro, Tito and I.Gandi would have received one of it in " case ". I will come back there later... and in gifts " of honor" to the politicians, policies/military of high ranks and maybe savants…
- According to MX, since China had to convince the west as well that the Orient, of its supremacy, the chosen shape, characteristic of the device was a mixture of Leica M4-5 and Cannon 7. The " look " of the device becoming thus " universal ".
- Use chosen of the lenses Leica bayonet " M " , prevented all import and merchandising, because patent rights, in most countries and in particular the industrialized western countries, more Japan. So the RF20 was in fact, unmarketable outside China. But MX have never see a RF20 to buy into (????) or outside China.
- For what concerns the produced quantities, MX informed me that one had told him that he had been manufactured 198 bodies - for all product in 1973.
- 198 x 1.4/50 lenses made between 1973 and 1974
and 72 x 1.4/35 and 2/90 between 1974 and 1975.
- Contrary to what is sometimes said, MX , as never sensible to speak of the construction of a scientific case without view-rangefinder
- Rigid “ case " made of black leather, stamped of the acronym gold RED FLAG 20, with the inside made of red velvet would have been produced according to the needs for prestigious gifts. About 30 would have been produced. These cases could contain the body and its 3 lenses, the sites for 10 circular filters and a pitfall to accommodate 4 X 35mm films in them limp.
- MX was contacted by the Chinese authorities in 1976 so that he presents the RF20 in the Fair of Paris 1977.
- He had like mission to present this material in window and not to take, of course, no sell…MX received a " RF20 case " of prestige then.
- This material was cleared unusually in France and was also, the only item to enter there. MX explained me that during the fair, he had the body and the optics of the window taken only, in order to prove to the amateur and professional that this material was not in wood
- MX had to send back in China this material, dice that the fair would be finished, on order of the Chinese authorities.
In 1975 - 1976, China was in full Revolution “Culturelle”…October 1976, Mrs. CC was jailed
- Other people end 1978 contacted MX. One proposed him to send back the complete casket in China or to keep it against the sum of 1.000 $. MX decided to keep this camera and to use it in complement of his M3. He will use the RF20 very regularly during 20 years, without problem,; what proves that the quality of this material is very good.
- Optics are judged excellent by MX, exact Leica copies of :
- 1.4/50 Summilux
- 1.4/35 Summilux
- and 2/90 Summicrons.
- The optic for Leica " M " is perfectly usable on the RF20 and those of the RF20 on the Leica bodies except, of course, CL. Mount and rangefinder system being precisely identical.
- MX didn't speak the use that one made some last RF20s, except that the address for back " its " RF20 was, " military ".
- This material was cleared unusually in France and was also, the only item to enter there. MX explained me that during the fair, he had the body and the optics of the window taken only, in order to prove to the amateur and professional that this material was not in wood
- MX had to send back in China this material, dice that the fair would be finished, on order of the Chinese authorities.
In 1975 - 1976, China was in full Revolution “Culturelle”…October 1976, Mrs. CC was jailed
- Other people end 1978 contacted MX. One proposed him to send back the complete casket in China or to keep it against the sum of 1.000 $. MX decided to keep this camera and to use it in complement of his M3. He will use the RF20 very regularly during 20 years, without problem,; what proves that the quality of this material is very good.
- Optics are judged excellent by MX, exact Leica copies of :
- 1.4/50 Summilux
- 1.4/35 Summilux
- and 2/90 Summicrons.
- The optic for Leica " M " is perfectly usable on the RF20 and those of the RF20 on the Leica bodies except, of course, CL. Mount and rangefinder system being precisely identical.
- MX didn't speak the use that one made some last RF20s, except that the address for back " its " RF20 was, " military ".
MX accepted to sell me this photographic whole (for part by exchange...) into its case, 15 years ago. I have often tried the body and the optics with big pleasure and very nice slides.
RF20 and its 3 optics are a really exceptional quality and are perfectly interchangeable with the Leicas M. lenses
Body n°: 73001 -The first RF20 body made !
Lens f1.4/50 n°: 740021 - it possesses a sunshade dedicated for 48mm diameter. This sunshade, put makes plug upside-down the lens.
Lens f1.4/35 n°: 75009
Lens f2/90 n°: 750052 - it possesses, as the Summicron, a built-in sunshade and a nut of foot.
RF20 and its 3 optics are a really exceptional quality and are perfectly interchangeable with the Leicas M. lenses
Body n°: 73001 -The first RF20 body made !
Lens f1.4/50 n°: 740021 - it possesses a sunshade dedicated for 48mm diameter. This sunshade, put makes plug upside-down the lens.
Lens f1.4/35 n°: 75009
Lens f2/90 n°: 750052 - it possesses, as the Summicron, a built-in sunshade and a nut of foot.
MX informed me that he left France with his wife and his dog, without letting address, some weeks after our meeting, on a sailboat...Cape toward Greece…Have a good trip Mister X !!!
I hope can have brought some answers in this forum while hoping that they are reliable…
My long discussion with MX, having convinced me of the exactness of his subjects.
But…Are you able to tell me certain things told here so don't seem you true?
For example, you say, Zhang, that you could not buy a RF20 at the time in China where it left because it was very expensive. Were there some RF20S on sale in stores, in China?
My long discussion with MX, having convinced me of the exactness of his subjects.
But…Are you able to tell me certain things told here so don't seem you true?
For example, you say, Zhang, that you could not buy a RF20 at the time in China where it left because it was very expensive. Were there some RF20S on sale in stores, in China?
Thank you.
I am always very interested in general by the history of the cameras and in those of the RF20, T.S.V.V.S, strange and military cameras, in particular. If you have other details, I’m taker.
If you want other information or other photos, I am at your service. I hope that you will have understood something of my strange language.... Sorry...
I am intrigued by the “open” sunshade of type " à la Leica/Canon " on the pic from your first post. Are you certain that him is “ RF20 "? Are you able to tell me where you found this photo?
Thank you very much... for advance for all…
and again sorry for my poor English language..
If you want other information or other photos, I am at your service. I hope that you will have understood something of my strange language.... Sorry...
I am intrigued by the “open” sunshade of type " à la Leica/Canon " on the pic from your first post. Are you certain that him is “ RF20 "? Are you able to tell me where you found this photo?
Thank you very much... for advance for all…
and again sorry for my poor English language..
Cheers
J - Paul
J - Paul
I try post photo
Attachments
Last edited:
J-Paul
Member
J-Paul
Member
J-Paul
Member
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Wow, nice camera Monsieur Jean-Paul, and a very interesting story. Merci.
If anybody wants one of these marvels, the RF20 on Arsenal Photo web site is still for sale at a hefty price :bang: and that's with the 50mm only
Cheers,
Abbazz
If anybody wants one of these marvels, the RF20 on Arsenal Photo web site is still for sale at a hefty price :bang: and that's with the 50mm only
Cheers,
Abbazz
J-Paul
Member
Thank you to you Monsieur Abbazz.
I saw in fact the Web announcement from Arsenal. A few years ago, I saw an on sale of it at Jessop. But always with the 50.
I look for, otherwise, of the complementary information to those that one usually finds, on another " legend ": The TSVVS
If somebody...see MY...
Cheers
Jean-Paul
I saw in fact the Web announcement from Arsenal. A few years ago, I saw an on sale of it at Jessop. But always with the 50.
I look for, otherwise, of the complementary information to those that one usually finds, on another " legend ": The TSVVS
If somebody...see MY...
Cheers
Jean-Paul
James Brannan
Established
That XIHU is simply gorgeous! As you can tell I'm still reading thru this thread but wanted to go ahead and thank you for making such an imformative and interesting thread here. I agree with many others in that you should write a book on the subject.zhang xk said:
zhang xk
Well-known
Hi Mr. J-Paul,
Thank you very much for this interesting story about the Red Flag 20. Your Red Flag 20 is simply beautiful! I am glad you have a good copy of the camera and lenses. Congratualtions!!
I will just anwer one of your questions.
"Were there any Red Flag 20s in store in China?"
Yes, I saw some used ones a few years ago at XINHUA's photographic equipment store at very high prices. These could also be found at auctions in Beijing, but the prices are rising constantly over the years. I hope I bought the one about 10 years ago for RMB 23,000 IIRC at an aution.
Thanks again for the article. I think I will have to read it again for details.
Best Reagrds
Zhang
Thank you very much for this interesting story about the Red Flag 20. Your Red Flag 20 is simply beautiful!
I am glad you have a good copy of the camera and lenses. Congratualtions!!I will just anwer one of your questions.
"Were there any Red Flag 20s in store in China?"
Yes, I saw some used ones a few years ago at XINHUA's photographic equipment store at very high prices. These could also be found at auctions in Beijing, but the prices are rising constantly over the years. I hope I bought the one about 10 years ago for RMB 23,000 IIRC at an aution.
Thanks again for the article. I think I will have to read it again for details.
Best Reagrds
Zhang