Chinese Red Flag 20 and lenses

[rxmd]

Hi Yevgeni,

yes, it should be Belarusian. I just didn't know the name in English at the time; in my native German it's called Weißrussisch.

I think that still comes from the time when you had the idea of three Russias (Russia proper, White Russia and Little Russia = Ukraine). I think the term малороссийский язык for the Ukrainian language has fallen out of use now, too (I sometimes use it to tease my wife; OTOH she teases Russians by calling them москалі and Western Ukrainians by calling them западенці, so I'm in good company )

Philipp

 

[zhang xk]

Hi Zhang - you've done it again. Another fascinating and unknown product.

I see the Panda is resting on something about the Belarus Soviet Socialist Republic if I am reading right. What is it?

Hi Donald,

That Chinese guy in Harbin is closer to the boarder so that he has a good access to items made in USSR. He collects everything made in Russia. I heard that recently those vintage Soviet photographic products are now classified by Russian government as antiques and they were not allowed to export. We might soon see a sharp rise of prices of early Kievs, Zorkis,etc.

Zhang

 

[ZorkiKat]

Hi,

I found this image of the very 1st Panda 135mm SLR made in 1973 with a s/n of 730001! There were only about 1,000 cameas with a panda image engraved. The owner offered to sell it for about $1,100(RMB 8,800), but quickly withdrew the offer. There were only about 7,000 Panda SLR cameras made briefly by Harbin Eletric Meters Factory(!) before it changed name to Peafowl. Is Peafowl a better translation than Peacock for that beautiful bird?
The early Panda has provision for a motor drive, but I never saw one for sale. It also has a mirror lock-up.

Cheer,

Zhang

Hi Comrade Zhang

The Panda (Xiongmao- 'bear cat' sounds nice ) looks to have Minolta SR features. Does this have the Minolta mount as well like the Seagull DF cameras? The panda engraving on top looks cute too.

Jay

 

[lushd]

Thanks Zhang and Phillip - I must say I am quite pleased with myself for being able to read one line of it! I can just about manage with a crib for the Cyrillic Alphabet at about one word a minute. The only Russian I recognise easily is photography language - FED, Fotoaparat and so on. I'm thinking about taking Russian classes. It's a beautiful language (but then all languages are beautiful!)

The antique thing is a bit disturbing. Presumably an export licence costs money which you will have to pay to the government? And they will spend it on fast cars and fancy nightclubs?

 

[rxmd]

I heard that recently those vintage Soviet photographic products are now classified by Russian government as antiques and they were not allowed to export. We might soon see a sharp rise of prices of early Kievs, Zorkis,etc.

IIRC it was the law since Soviet times that everything over 50 years counted as "antique" and needed a license for export. As photoequipment ages, it gradually begins to fall under this regulation. Maybe Yevgeni can clear this up.

Philipp

 

[zhang xk]

IIRC it was the law since Soviet times that everything over 50 years counted as "antique" and needed a license for export. As photoequipment ages, it gradually begins to fall under this regulation. Maybe Yevgeni can clear this up.

Philipp

A friend of mine tried to take a F21 out of Russia a couple of months ago ,but the camera was confiscated by the customs. What a pity! That is an interesting camera still missing form my collection. I also heard form a Russian camera dealer in Beijing a few days ago that he could find no more Russian gears. Bad news for us GAS.

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

Hi Comrade Zhang

The Panda (Xiongmao- 'bear cat' sounds nice ) looks to have Minolta SR features. Does this have the Minolta mount as well like the Seagull DF cameras? The panda engraving on top looks cute too.

Jay

Hi Jay Tongzhi(comrade),

I think the early Seagull DFs was built on Minolta 7 production lines so that they share the same lens mount, and this Panda is an exact copy of Seagull DF. But the 58mm F2 lens is a Zeiss Biotar copy that is very sharp.

Cheers,

Zhang

I see that the Shanghai 581 or 582 is still missing from your vast collection. How come?

 

[ZorkiKat]

Hi Jay Tongzhi(comrade),

I think the early Seagull DFs was built on Minolta 7 production lines so that they share the same lens mount, and this Panda is an exact copy of Seagull DF. But the 58mm F2 lens is a Zeiss Biotar copy that is very sharp.

Cheers,

Zhang

I see that the Shanghai 581 or 582 is still missing from your vast collection. How come?

你好张同志

I can't find any good Chinese cameras here . Right now, I have a seagull TLR and the folding version. The Seagull TLR's shutter is dead and the camera is now in pieces. Months ago, I found a “东风” RF camera (similar to the Japanese fixed-lens Canon or Petri RFs from the 1960s) in a used camera store. It wasn't working and was verydirty; the seller put a very high price on it- an amount which for which I could get a couple of FED from eBay.

BTW, the Minolta SR cameras from the 1950s-60s also sported 58mm f/2 lenses. I think the Japanese took the cue from the early German SLRs and put
58mm normal lenses on their cameras, instead of the 50 commonly seen now.

Jay

 

[rxmd]

A friend of mine tried to take a F21 out of Russia a couple of months ago ,but the camera was confiscated by the customs.

In January 2004 I travelled from Tashkent to Helsinki by train after completing my field research in Uzbekistan. In my luggage I had a copy of a 1954 Tajik-Russian dictionary and about five hundred copies of documents from the 1890-1915 period from the Uzbek State Archives. The originals, being from the Tsarist administration of Turkestan, all had a stamp "Top secret" in Russian, albeit in pre-1917 orthography. That was a fun journey, but they didn't even open my luggage; I guess they simply didn't expect anything interesting to be transported by train.

Philipp

 

[zhang xk]

你好张同志

I can't find any good Chinese cameras here . Right now, I have a seagull TLR and the folding version. The Seagull TLR's shutter is dead and the camera is now in pieces. Months ago, I found a “东风” RF camera (similar to the Japanese fixed-lens Canon or Petri RFs from the 1960s) in a used camera store. It wasn't working and was verydirty; the seller put a very high price on it- an amount which for which I could get a couple of FED from eBay.

BTW, the Minolta SR cameras from the 1950s-60s also sported 58mm f/2 lenses. I think the Japanese took the cue from the early German SLRs and put
58mm normal lenses on their cameras, instead of the 50 commonly seen now.

Jay

Thanks Jay,

Should you feel the need for another Chinese TLR, just let me know. I still have a couple of dozens on the book shelf. I fixed one of the Shanghai 582s, and I think with a Russian or German lens, it could be a good user. I transplanted a gear from a dead Zorki, and now it is almost as smooth as a Leica.
Here is an image of the earliest Chinese 120 folder, the prototype of Shanghai 201. This is the very 1st version of pre-production Shnaghai 201s. I have a 2nd version. They are identified by the shape of top housing.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

In January 2004 I travelled from Tashkent to Helsinki by train after completing my field research in Uzbekistan. In my luggage I had a copy of a 1954 Tajik-Russian dictionary and about five hundred copies of documents from the 1890-1915 period from the Uzbek State Archives. The originals, being from the Tsarist administration of Turkestan, all had a stamp "Top secret" in Russian, albeit in pre-1917 orthography. That was a fun journey, but they didn't even open my luggage; I guess they simply didn't expect anything interesting to be transported by train.

Philipp

Hi Philipp,

That is great, I assume those are valuable documents. One day a Russian library may wish to buy them back with big price. Now this thread begins to look like a sub-forum.

Kind regards,


Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

Call it anything but a Red flag.:bang: This is a vintage Chinese watch with a revolutionary brand name of Hong Qi(red flag), but the dial is a very far cry. I find it a little humorous, so I will share it with you. The other one is a Shanghai A623 date. That was Zhou Enlai's watch, and is one of the most collectable vintage Chinese watches. This model was not made in big numbers. Zhou wore this watch from 1962 until his death in 1976.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Thanks Jay,

Should you feel the need for another Chinese TLR, just let me know. I still have a couple of dozens on the book shelf. I fixed one of the Shanghai 582s, and I think with a Russian or German lens, it could be a good user. I transplanted a gear from a dead Zorki, and now it is almost as smooth as a Leica.
Here is an image of the earliest Chinese 120 folder, the prototype of Shanghai 201. This is the very 1st version of pre-production Shnaghai 201s. I have a 2nd version. They are identified by the shape of top housing.

Cheers,

Zhang

谢谢长同志！... I will consider your offer when I get a Chinese GAS attack I have a friend who works in Shanghai and has found some cameras. Right now, there are only two Chinese cameras that I am thinking of having- the 长成 120 SLR and the 上海 Leica copy. But this can't happen now since I just splurged the "commune's" (composed of me and 4 cats! ) money into an Epson R-D1s!...that would mean that they would have less treats, a cut back on fancy cat food....it's back to healthy basic diets for them!...and no more GAS for me for at year

 

[zhang xk]

谢谢长同志！... I will consider your offer when I get a Chinese GAS attack I have a friend who works in Shanghai and has found some cameras. Right now, there are only two Chinese cameras that I am thinking of having- the 长成 120 SLR and the 上海 Leica copy. But this can't happen now since I just splurged the "commune's" (composed of me and 4 cats! ) money into an Epson R-D1s!...that would mean that they would have less treats, a cut back on fancy cat food....it's back to healthy basic diets for them!...and no more GAS for me for at year

Hi Comrade Jay,

I will be waiting to see the results with your Epson RD-1 with those J-3,8, I-50,and others. Those digital rangefinders are still a bit too expensive at the moment. When I get one, I will want to try those Chinese 35mm cine optics.

Here is another interesting Chinese camea, a MF 360 degree panorama. I think I saw it before in person, but the price was a bit high. The green one is a special purpose camera.

Cheers,

Zhang

I will try to count how many Chinese MF cameras in my house.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Hi Comrade Jay,

I will be waiting to see the results with your Epson RD-1 with those J-3,8, I-50,and others. Those digital rangefinders are still a bit too expensive at the moment. When I get one, I will want to try those Chinese 35mm cine optics.

Here is another interesting Chinese camea, a MF 360 degree panorama. I think I saw it before in person, but the price was a bit high. The green one is a special purpose camera.

Cheers,

Zhang

I will try to count how many Chinese MF cameras in my house.

你好张同志

The R-D1s have become less expensive compared to what they cost when they were newly released. The one I'm getting in two weeks is new, and cost about $1700, and is coming from Japan. You might have friends there who could get one for you while they are still available. The stocks are running out- so you must hurry! (in case you've not noticed yet, I AM inducing you to a digiGAS attack! )

I was able to play with a friend's R-D1s and attached Jupiter-3 and Jupiter-9, as well as Industar-61 lenses on it. The lenses worked well- and the tests were as, usual, excellent. The J-3 shots even looked better than those made by the Leitz Summarit- though the Summarit did have some cleaning marks. I'll send you by PM the links for these test photos....it's still a 'state secret' for now....

The cine lens adaptation is interesting. What sort of adapter would you use in this case? I've found some inexpensive 12 to 20mm lenses which fit the 16mm Krasnogorsk. Can these be used? Or is adaptation limited to lenses for 35mm cine film?

Jay

 

[zhang xk]

你好张同志

The R-D1s have become less expensive compared to what they cost when they were newly released. The one I'm getting in two weeks is new, and cost about $1700, and is coming from Japan. You might have friends there who could get one for you while they are still available. The stocks are running out- so you must hurry! (in case you've not noticed yet, I AM inducing you to a digiGAS attack! )

I was able to play with a friend's R-D1s and attached Jupiter-3 and Jupiter-9, as well as Industar-61 lenses on it. The lenses worked well- and the tests were as, usual, excellent. The J-3 shots even looked better than those made by the Leitz Summarit- though the Summarit did have some cleaning marks. I'll send you by PM the links for these test photos....it's still a 'state secret' for now....

The cine lens adaptation is interesting. What sort of adapter would you use in this case? I've found some inexpensive 12 to 20mm lenses which fit the 16mm Krasnogorsk. Can these be used? Or is adaptation limited to lenses for 35mm cine film?

Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks. I'd like to see how a J-3 beat the Summarit. If only China could make a RD-1 type rangefinder for $500. I think it is possible.

The advantage of those cine optics is that you can find some real wideangle lens at a good price, and I think they are better corrected for a smaller format.
35mm cine lenses are designed to cover roughly a half 35mm frame(16mmx22mm?) that is about the size of most current sensors. I don't think those 16mm cine optics could cover a digital sensor unless you can find a 2x teleconverter. But I am not very sure. Zeiss seem to have the same lenses for both 16mm and 35mm movie cameras.

I use a M42-m39 adaptor ring for a Fed or Zorki, then add a LTM -M adaptor, these can be used on a RD-1. These cine optics should have an Arri standard mount. All my 20mm, 28mm,35mm, 50mm cine optics have enough back focual length for a Leica type camera.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[ZorkiKat]

Hi Jay,

Thanks. I'd like to see how a J-3 beat the Summarit.

If only China could make a RD-1 type rangefinder for $500. I think it is possible.

I use a M42-m39 adaptor ring for a Fed or Zorki, then add a LTM -M adaptor, these can be used on a RD-1. These cine optics should have an Arri standard mount. All my 20mm, 28mm,35mm, 50mm cine optics have enough back focual length for a Leica type camera.

Cheers,

Zhang

Hi Zhang

I will send the link shortly to you by PM.

If only China could make a RD-1 type rangefinder for $500. I think it is possible.

You may have to start knocking on the Chinese companies which make inexpensive digital cameras. Show them how easy it is to stick a digital module behind a FED

Are the Chinese cine lenses you've adapted fitted with M42 mounts? Where do you get the M42-M39 adapter tube ( I assume it will be like a tube since the adaptor has to span the register differences between the two lens types)?

Jay

 

[zhang xk]

Hi Zhang

I will send the link shortly to you by PM.



You may have to start knocking on the Chinese companies which make inexpensive digital cameras. Show them how easy it is to stick a digital module behind a FED

Are the Chinese cine lenses you've adapted fitted with M42 mounts? Where do you get the M42-M39 adapter tube ( I assume it will be like a tube since the adaptor has to span the register differences between the two lens types)?

Jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the link. I will check.

The M42-M39 adaptor was made for adapting M42 lenses to a LTM camera. It is a custom made piece with correct registration. The Arri standard mount has a diameter of 40.8mm. So I put the cine lens into the tube of this adaptor, and use a little tape to fasten it. It is not ragefinder coupled, but a 20mm lens has a great DOF and the distance scale is accurately marked.

I have tried these cine optics on a DSLR for macro shots, and they are very sharp! I think they will perform well on a D-rangefinder. The 20mm is a T2(f1.8-1.9?) lens. A full stop faster than a 21mm F2.8 Leitz.

Kind Regards

Zhang

 

[Jeroen]

Speaking of weird Chinese cameras: http://www.camerachina.com/products_display.php?id=141

(No RF though)

 

[Will]

Zhang,

Ever see a Shen Leng in the north?

6x8, interchangeable back.