Riccis
Well-known
Understood, it just may be hard to look at most wedding photography out there after seeing these guys' portfolio
jasonhupe
Established
Understood, it just may be hard to look at most wedding photography out there after seeing these guys' portfolio
Point taken. I agree.
Its like going to your local camera club after viewing a retrospect by Bresson or Friedlander. Once you cross a line, you really cant go back.
thomasw_
Well-known
Well then why ask the forum, as it seems you guys already know?
Get Friend or Uncle Whomever to shoot, especially if you will be satisfied with such results!
snausages
Well-known
I think stiff, posed wedding shots like I see in my parent's albums are okay. I don't like it when it looks like a spread from a J Crew catalogue. "Look how beautiful our life is!" You can capture the real moments with her when you're in a field in France...
Paddy C
Unused film collector
Hmm, why oddly enough. I guess you'll think I'm a weirdo since I only using film Ms for my work
I wouldn't say that Jose and Jonathan's work is not timeless, though... Also great photographers and close friends.
I say oddly, because most here (including me) shoot film. And what do you know? the photographers I like both shoot film when about 99% of wedding photographers are digital. The inflection with which I would speak the word is lost here.
You have a double negative in the second sentence so I'm not sure what you mean there. I said they are timeless and thus different than the over-the-top cheesy post-processing you see so much of now.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Ya know.. I'm with most of the advice given here.
I've been shooting weddings since.. oh.. 2001 but seriously since 2003.
I don't shoot as my sole income though - I like the "cushy" lifestyle I've got plus when I was considering it, a very wise photographer, David A Williams from Melbourne told me, when he was here in Toronto, why would I want to give up something that some full time pros wished they had (i.e. benefits, steady income, etc.)
Anyway, that's neither here nor there.. just me rambling on I guess.
Getting back to your main points:
1) Price - yes.. the full time ones who are good at their craft (this includes CUSTOMER SERVICE imho) are priced accordingly. You can always troll Craigslist and get a student but be prepared, like most other things in life to, "get what you pay for" - you can, if you look around, find photographers willing to work with you and within your budget - don't ever assume that all photographers won't (or will) budge on their prices. You have to ask.. talk to them.. meet them.. figure out if they're right for you (and vice versa).
2) Why is it so expensive? Well.. I can tell you.. most people who don't realize say "But you're only working 10 hours on the day of the wedding. That means you're making $250 per hour !!!!" (if one was to charge $2500 for the wedding) - well.. no.. they're also editing the images afterward, hopefully post processing and doing a good job at it, doing some touch ups if necessary, and packaging and delivering the final product to you as well. All that "stuff" that people tend to forget about - I guess "out of sight, out of mind" is the term that can be applied here
3) Ask your future wife what she wants. I know it's both of you who are getting married but, I'd hazard a guess, the day may be "more" for her than it is for you. I'm not saying that it's not JUST AS IMPORTANT to you but, I think it's just different for a woman than it is for a guy. At least that's the impression I always got when photographing most weddings (save for the same sex wedding I shot this year.. that's a different story).
Finally, I honestly think you CAN find someone to fit the two of you AND within your budget but you gotta hunt. And you gotta take time to meet with the photographers and explain your needs/desires. The right photographer will be the one that "gets" where you're coming from and provides the quality you feel you can afford. They'll be invisible but also always there when you need them.
Anyway.. I've rambled on long enough and probably, most of the advice above me is more sage I know you'll find someone.. good luck
Cheers,
Dave
I've been shooting weddings since.. oh.. 2001 but seriously since 2003.
I don't shoot as my sole income though - I like the "cushy" lifestyle I've got
plus when I was considering it, a very wise photographer, David A Williams from Melbourne told me, when he was here in Toronto, why would I want to give up something that some full time pros wished they had (i.e. benefits, steady income, etc.)Anyway, that's neither here nor there.. just me rambling on I guess.
Getting back to your main points:
1) Price - yes.. the full time ones who are good at their craft (this includes CUSTOMER SERVICE imho) are priced accordingly. You can always troll Craigslist and get a student but be prepared, like most other things in life to, "get what you pay for" - you can, if you look around, find photographers willing to work with you and within your budget - don't ever assume that all photographers won't (or will) budge on their prices. You have to ask.. talk to them.. meet them.. figure out if they're right for you (and vice versa).
2) Why is it so expensive? Well.. I can tell you.. most people who don't realize say "But you're only working 10 hours on the day of the wedding. That means you're making $250 per hour !!!!" (if one was to charge $2500 for the wedding) - well.. no.. they're also editing the images afterward, hopefully post processing and doing a good job at it, doing some touch ups if necessary, and packaging and delivering the final product to you as well. All that "stuff" that people tend to forget about - I guess "out of sight, out of mind" is the term that can be applied here
3) Ask your future wife what she wants. I know it's both of you who are getting married but, I'd hazard a guess, the day may be "more" for her than it is for you. I'm not saying that it's not JUST AS IMPORTANT to you but, I think it's just different for a woman than it is for a guy. At least that's the impression I always got when photographing most weddings (save for the same sex wedding I shot this year.. that's a different story).
Finally, I honestly think you CAN find someone to fit the two of you AND within your budget but you gotta hunt. And you gotta take time to meet with the photographers and explain your needs/desires. The right photographer will be the one that "gets" where you're coming from and provides the quality you feel you can afford. They'll be invisible but also always there when you need them.
Anyway.. I've rambled on long enough and probably, most of the advice above me is more sage
I know you'll find someone.. good luck Cheers,
Dave
Riccis
Well-known
Good catch... Don't know how I missed the double negative and your point... Doh!
Cheers,
FrankS
Registered User
a different viewpoint:
some newly-wed's budgets simply do not allow for the cost of true wedding photography art, deservedly costing multiple thousands of dollars. a couple in such a circumstance should not be begrudged, imo. they deserve better than an inexperienced student photographer. what's wrong with an experienced hobbyist doing a (merely) competent job, delivering honest if not artistic images? part time photographers who provide $500 or $800 weddings are not undercutting a pro, because the engaged couples who hire them are not in the same market sector as a wedding pro who (deservedly must) charge multiple K's.
a couple with limited means would be (financially)irresponsible to spend multiple thousands of dollars on wedding photography. such a couple need to budget for more basic living costs. they are similarly not looking to buy original artworks, like a leibovitz print, to decorate their walls. not at this point in their lives, but perhaps if they work hard and have some luck (or rather do not experiece some random bad luck that's out there) they may one day be in a position to do so.
some newly-wed's budgets simply do not allow for the cost of true wedding photography art, deservedly costing multiple thousands of dollars. a couple in such a circumstance should not be begrudged, imo. they deserve better than an inexperienced student photographer. what's wrong with an experienced hobbyist doing a (merely) competent job, delivering honest if not artistic images? part time photographers who provide $500 or $800 weddings are not undercutting a pro, because the engaged couples who hire them are not in the same market sector as a wedding pro who (deservedly must) charge multiple K's.
a couple with limited means would be (financially)irresponsible to spend multiple thousands of dollars on wedding photography. such a couple need to budget for more basic living costs. they are similarly not looking to buy original artworks, like a leibovitz print, to decorate their walls. not at this point in their lives, but perhaps if they work hard and have some luck (or rather do not experiece some random bad luck that's out there) they may one day be in a position to do so.
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photogdave
Shops local
Good point Frank. Maybe my undercutting comment was a bit unkind. However we all know that some part-timers out there DO present themselves as being in the same league as the expensive pros.
They are they ones to watch out for!
The experienced hobbyist who presents themselves honestly is a good idea.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Good point Frank.
The corollary would be, if you want the "photography art" why not hold off on the wedding until you become more financially secure.
That's just my take on it - I've never been married but I can only gather that if you're financially strapped going into a marriage that's just one more hurdle you're both going to need to overcome and probably one more thing you'd rather not worry about.
That said, couples that can overcome that (and all the other hurdles and pitfalls that may occur along the road of marriage) will likely be together, truly, till death they do part
Either way, like I said, I bet Darkhorse can find a photographer within their budget.. really
and I bet it'll be the perfect photographer for them Cheers,
Dave
kuzano
Veteran
Keeping the Price DOWN.. Do what I did!!!
Keeping the Price DOWN.. Do what I did!!!
When I married, we went to Reno, Nevada and got married in one of the many marriage chapels that line the streets between the various Casino's. We drove down, got a motel, went to the county courthouse and bought a license, located a chapel and scheduled the wedding for 7PM on Saturday night. ($35 if I recall). We were also shocked that the license cost $20 instead of the $10 we expected. (Overtime pay for the clerks to come in on Saturday.)
Well we got to the Chapel. Every time we turned around we were springing for more and more items. Audio recording of the ceremony $10. Flowers $10 and I think they may have been real. Witness $7.50 (the pastors wife). Photos of the Bride and Groom after the ceremony...GEEZ!!! $15.
The ceremony was performed and the pastor went into the back room and came out with an old TLR. He took the pictures, 12 6X6 on a roll of 120 of me and the smiling bride. I wasn't smiling because of all the ripoffs taking place.
He rolled the roll off the takeoff spool, opened the camera, took out the roll, slipped it in an envelope and handed it to me. "just take it to a developer when you get home".
Yeah... so we did that.
They were all out of focus.
The quality of the marriage was a reflection of that day. Don't go cheap. No matter how much your ego wants to blow off the photography, honor your woman and show her your love.
Dig deep and smile.
Keeping the Price DOWN.. Do what I did!!!
When I married, we went to Reno, Nevada and got married in one of the many marriage chapels that line the streets between the various Casino's. We drove down, got a motel, went to the county courthouse and bought a license, located a chapel and scheduled the wedding for 7PM on Saturday night. ($35 if I recall). We were also shocked that the license cost $20 instead of the $10 we expected. (Overtime pay for the clerks to come in on Saturday.)
Well we got to the Chapel. Every time we turned around we were springing for more and more items. Audio recording of the ceremony $10. Flowers $10 and I think they may have been real. Witness $7.50 (the pastors wife). Photos of the Bride and Groom after the ceremony...GEEZ!!! $15.
The ceremony was performed and the pastor went into the back room and came out with an old TLR. He took the pictures, 12 6X6 on a roll of 120 of me and the smiling bride. I wasn't smiling because of all the ripoffs taking place.
He rolled the roll off the takeoff spool, opened the camera, took out the roll, slipped it in an envelope and handed it to me. "just take it to a developer when you get home".
Yeah... so we did that.
They were all out of focus.
The quality of the marriage was a reflection of that day. Don't go cheap. No matter how much your ego wants to blow off the photography, honor your woman and show her your love.
Dig deep and smile.
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Darkhorse
pointed and shot
Personally I am financially secure. My fiancee has a pretty well paying part time job that she's lucky to have given the times. But we are big believers in living within your means, and saving up for our futures together and for her schooling (she's 25 now and had a bit of a later start), and our wants like spending time in Europe (especially for her) and a home in the future. Plus I like being essentially debt-free.
But I'm not really talking about having Reno Wedding Chapel photography either. I'm just pondering a good compromise. A well-meaning and competent hobbyist sounds pretty good to me. I'm sure there's plenty to choose from.
But I'm not really talking about having Reno Wedding Chapel photography either. I'm just pondering a good compromise. A well-meaning and competent hobbyist sounds pretty good to me. I'm sure there's plenty to choose from.
TomN
Established
My advise; pick me. I'll do it for free, you just get me to California, get me a big plate of Texas style ribs, and I'll take care of the rest!
ChrisN
Striving
Darkhorse - firstly, congratulations to you and your lady. Lots of good advice above. I have a couple of questions - under US law, who owns copyright on the images, and who owns the digital files or negatives? Here in Oz the law says that for weddings the client owns the copyright (unless the client signs it away in the small print), but ownership of the files/negatives is a separate issue. In either case the photographer typically charges extortionate prices after the event for the prints, books etc. Even if the client owns the copyright that doesn't guarantee access to the files/negs!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
As Chris says, first, congratulations. I hope your wedding is as happy as Frances's and mine: we were married in 1982.
The best wedding photographers are seriously expensive: $5000 and up. Anything under $2000 is likely to be a bit risky: as mentioned elsewhere, too many 'second jobs' (MAKE $$$ IN YOUR SPARE TIME...). So do you need a wedding photographer at all? Only you and your fiancée can answer that one.
This is my second marriage (the first, 1977-980, didn't take, though Cath and I are still friends) and I didn't have a paid photographer at either. Nor do we miss the pictures. Friends took snaps (mind you, some of them were professioonal photographers, though not wedding professionals). Some we prize. Some we don't. The important bit is each other, and besides, we just didn't see paying hundreds of pounds (as it was in those days) for pictures. Hang 'em on the wall? Nope. Portraits maybe. Wedding pics, no.
From the other side of the counter, I've shot friends' weddings as a wedding present, when I couldn't get out of it: close friends, usually poor, to whom a few hundred, let alone a few thousand, was a significant expense. There's even a module on it on my site. Here's a quote from the beginning:
This is not a guide to shooting weddings commercially. We have never done this, and we never want to. Rather, it's about shooting weddings for friends. This may either be because they're too young and broke to afford anything else (which accounted for the first two that Roger shot), or because they're very old friends and really, really want you to shoot their weddings: you would offend them more by refusing than you would by doing it on your terms. (http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps weddings.html)
I hate shooting weddings, but I'll do it on those terms. Call me a cheapskate; say I'm taking bread out of the mouths of professionals. I'll put my hand up. But if the money really is tight, or if BOTH OF YOU just don't think it's worth it, a reliable friend is (in my book) a better bet than a cheap (so-called) professional.
Agree terms beforehand. Expenses? Timescale? Number of pictures? Write it down. We've never lost friends over it. There's no reason why you should, either.
Cheers,
R.
The best wedding photographers are seriously expensive: $5000 and up. Anything under $2000 is likely to be a bit risky: as mentioned elsewhere, too many 'second jobs' (MAKE $$$ IN YOUR SPARE TIME...). So do you need a wedding photographer at all? Only you and your fiancée can answer that one.
This is my second marriage (the first, 1977-980, didn't take, though Cath and I are still friends) and I didn't have a paid photographer at either. Nor do we miss the pictures. Friends took snaps (mind you, some of them were professioonal photographers, though not wedding professionals). Some we prize. Some we don't. The important bit is each other, and besides, we just didn't see paying hundreds of pounds (as it was in those days) for pictures. Hang 'em on the wall? Nope. Portraits maybe. Wedding pics, no.
From the other side of the counter, I've shot friends' weddings as a wedding present, when I couldn't get out of it: close friends, usually poor, to whom a few hundred, let alone a few thousand, was a significant expense. There's even a module on it on my site. Here's a quote from the beginning:
This is not a guide to shooting weddings commercially. We have never done this, and we never want to. Rather, it's about shooting weddings for friends. This may either be because they're too young and broke to afford anything else (which accounted for the first two that Roger shot), or because they're very old friends and really, really want you to shoot their weddings: you would offend them more by refusing than you would by doing it on your terms. (http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps weddings.html)
I hate shooting weddings, but I'll do it on those terms. Call me a cheapskate; say I'm taking bread out of the mouths of professionals. I'll put my hand up. But if the money really is tight, or if BOTH OF YOU just don't think it's worth it, a reliable friend is (in my book) a better bet than a cheap (so-called) professional.
Agree terms beforehand. Expenses? Timescale? Number of pictures? Write it down. We've never lost friends over it. There's no reason why you should, either.
Cheers,
R.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I don't think $2000 is expensive for a wedding photographer -- $10,000 would be expensive.
Having said that, if you want to do it cheap, you could just have all your guests take the photos, and get copies from them. Don't know what the quality would be like though. Or you could shoot the wedding yourself...sort of a first person account of being the subject of the wedding and the photographer of it too??? Hmm, maybe not....
Or maybe contact the local newspaper to see if any of their photographers can do it on the side?
Having said that, if you want to do it cheap, you could just have all your guests take the photos, and get copies from them. Don't know what the quality would be like though. Or you could shoot the wedding yourself...sort of a first person account of being the subject of the wedding and the photographer of it too??? Hmm, maybe not....
Or maybe contact the local newspaper to see if any of their photographers can do it on the side?
Damaso
Photojournalist
Hire the best photographer you can but DON'T hire a wedding photographer. Find a good photojournalist whose work you respect and let them do their job. Remember, of all the things you pay for that day the photographs are the only thing which will last...
Gumby
Veteran
Most often this is true, but it is also worth looking at their "books" if time permits. Sometimes on can get a 'bargain" and a nice surprise at the same time. In the past I have used a videographer that shoots (and edits) for $300/day. He is doing this as a "second carreer" and is undercutting the full-time pros. He is, however, a graduate of a well-known art school with a degree in cinematography, professional credits to his name, awards, etc, etc. ... but he needs to work on-the-side for financial reasons. He is so cheap, and so good, that I sometimes feel guilty about his low rates. He might be unusual, but if time permits there are likely to be other like him out there. People like him don't seem to show up in the Yellow Pages, or at wedding shows... ask around at the local wedding shops and florists!
Gumby
Veteran
Sounds like an odd combination, but easily done... provided you don't mind parsley on the plate. It's a CA thing!
snausages
Well-known
What about building 30 minutes into the day where you can shoot a roll of tri-x on your OM together? You shoot her, she shoots you, someone in your family shoots you together. You process and print the roll yourself sometime later. Gives you a moment to have 'your' shots of the day and might take away some of the anxiety in your mind about whoever handles the actual event...