randomm
Well-known
Like I'm sure many of us I am currently suffering from the too-many-cameras -syndrome. I've got M6, CLE and (soon) Bessa R2 for the M-mount and I've decided that either the CLE or R2 has to go. The main reason for buying the R2 is the bundled lens that its coming with.
I have not yet played with the R2 as I'm only getting it either today or tomorrow, just trying to take pre-emptive steps to have something to say to the missus about the whole situation!
I love the CLE for its size, its relatively quiet shutter, its 28mm framelines (even usable with glasses), the only problem with it is an erratic self-timer / on / off switch. Off and on positions work always, but occasionally the self-timer does not. I also don't like the fact that CLEs meter is only turned on when in automatic mode and I'm slightly worried about availability of spare parts for the CLE in future.
Now, obviously I will probably have a good idea what to do after couple of rolls through the R2, but on paper I like R2's mechanical shutter. I briefly had an R3A but as the VF was unusable for a glasses-wearer like me I sold it. I never liked the strap lug positions either, and am aware that R2 has the same lug positions but the camera I'm getting has the finger grip with the additional lug(s) so that should no longer be an issue. R2 does not have 28mm framelines though, which is a big minus...
So, which one would you keep?
I have not yet played with the R2 as I'm only getting it either today or tomorrow, just trying to take pre-emptive steps to have something to say to the missus about the whole situation!
I love the CLE for its size, its relatively quiet shutter, its 28mm framelines (even usable with glasses), the only problem with it is an erratic self-timer / on / off switch. Off and on positions work always, but occasionally the self-timer does not. I also don't like the fact that CLEs meter is only turned on when in automatic mode and I'm slightly worried about availability of spare parts for the CLE in future.
Now, obviously I will probably have a good idea what to do after couple of rolls through the R2, but on paper I like R2's mechanical shutter. I briefly had an R3A but as the VF was unusable for a glasses-wearer like me I sold it. I never liked the strap lug positions either, and am aware that R2 has the same lug positions but the camera I'm getting has the finger grip with the additional lug(s) so that should no longer be an issue. R2 does not have 28mm framelines though, which is a big minus...
So, which one would you keep?
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haempe
Well-known
I had to make a similar decision, in my case the Bessa must go.
My main reasons: 28 + (beloved) 40 mm framelines; quiet shutter; AE; size.
My main reasons: 28 + (beloved) 40 mm framelines; quiet shutter; AE; size.
lxmike
M2 fan.
I would go for the CLE
Steve M.
Veteran
I had an R3A and had the same problems w/ the viewfinder. Also had an R2 and hated it. Same cheap construction as an R (but more annoying, as an R2 usually costs more money) and loud shutter. I bought an R2A and it's one of the best RF cameras I've ever used. The shutter is quieter (but still loud compared to a Leica), the camera's build quality is MUCH better, it has AE, and the 50 frame lines are fully visible w/ my glasses on. Wonderful camera, and the only other camera in it's price range that I'd consider using is a CL because of it's great viewfinder for eyeglass wearers and quieter shutter.
A CLE is an aging, complicated electronic camera, and repairs on it may eat you alive. The CL is a completely mechanical camera, assuming you pick one up w/ a dead meter, and very reliable after a CLA. An R2A won't need a CLA in all probability, and will be dead reliable. Same ridiculous strap lugs though, as you mentioned. Either put a side grip on it, or put up w/ it. Keep in mind that a 50 DR lens won't mount on a Bessa if you want to use one, while it will mount on a CL.
A CLE is an aging, complicated electronic camera, and repairs on it may eat you alive. The CL is a completely mechanical camera, assuming you pick one up w/ a dead meter, and very reliable after a CLA. An R2A won't need a CLA in all probability, and will be dead reliable. Same ridiculous strap lugs though, as you mentioned. Either put a side grip on it, or put up w/ it. Keep in mind that a 50 DR lens won't mount on a Bessa if you want to use one, while it will mount on a CL.
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doubledan
Member
The Bessa is loud and clunky. I haven't touched it since buying a CLE as backup for my Zeiss Ikon, and these days I probably use the CLE more than the ZI. It's perfect with a 28mm lens. If you mounted a 40mm CV I think it might be the most pocketable FF rangefinder on earth (I haven't done this, as I have a 35 lux pre-asph -- which unfortunately can't be used on the CLE because of a protective collar around the rear element). In short, don't think twice.
Dan
Dan
silent1
Well-known
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
+1
And, only because I HAVE to add something to satisfy the forum requirements, try the CLE with the 28/3.5 for a truly compact RF/high-end p&s.
/
gliderbee
Well-known
so ...
>Like I'm sure many of us I am currently suffering from the too-many->cameras -syndrome. I've got M6, CLE and (soon) Bessa R2 for the M->mount and I've decided that either the CLE or R2 has to go
... you have two (and soon THREE) cameras and you are suffering the too-many-cameras-syndrome ?
I usually have at least two (and often three) cameras in my reach .... I'm deliberatly not listing my cameras (or lenses) in my signature as so many do: you never know when my wifes just happens to read a post of mine by coincidence ...
Stefan.
>Like I'm sure many of us I am currently suffering from the too-many->cameras -syndrome. I've got M6, CLE and (soon) Bessa R2 for the M->mount and I've decided that either the CLE or R2 has to go
... you have two (and soon THREE) cameras and you are suffering the too-many-cameras-syndrome ?
I usually have at least two (and often three) cameras in my reach .... I'm deliberatly not listing my cameras (or lenses) in my signature as so many do: you never know when my wifes just happens to read a post of mine by coincidence ...
Stefan.
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randomm
Well-known
randomm
Well-known
... the way this poll is looking there might be a cheap R2 in the classifieds soon
You all reminded me how difficult it was finding a bang for buck CLE last year - it would be silly to let it go.
You all reminded me how difficult it was finding a bang for buck CLE last year - it would be silly to let it go.
gliderbee
Well-known
but I notice I didn't give my opinion about your question ...
I have (a."a.f."o.) M6ttl, R2 and CLE.
If I had to choose between the last two, I would keep the CLE because it has AE; the R2 adds nothing to the M6 (but I like the R2; the RxA and RxM series have much better build quality though).
Stefan.
I have (a."a.f."o.) M6ttl, R2 and CLE.
If I had to choose between the last two, I would keep the CLE because it has AE; the R2 adds nothing to the M6 (but I like the R2; the RxA and RxM series have much better build quality though).
Stefan.
It might be worth your while to use the Bessa when it comes, to see how you like it. I like my Bessa R4A quite a lot; of course it has a unique viewfinder with framelines even for 21mm.
But I've had a CLE since new and it's been a favorite all this time. I like the 40mm lens, and the 28mm framelines are extremely easy to use. It's so unimposing looking too, modest, and easy to have along while doing other things.
Some express legitimate concerns over battery dependency, and aging electronics. I did buy a second CLE as a spare a few years ago, but both run fine... every 10 years or so I need to clean out the accumulated debris under the shutter speed dial, polish up the electrical contacts, then it's fine again.
But I've had a CLE since new and it's been a favorite all this time. I like the 40mm lens, and the 28mm framelines are extremely easy to use. It's so unimposing looking too, modest, and easy to have along while doing other things.
Some express legitimate concerns over battery dependency, and aging electronics. I did buy a second CLE as a spare a few years ago, but both run fine... every 10 years or so I need to clean out the accumulated debris under the shutter speed dial, polish up the electrical contacts, then it's fine again.
disco2000
Established
I still cry myself to sleep every night for selling my CLE.
randomm
Well-known
I got the R2 last night, and to be honest its not that bad. Yes the shutter is a metallic, more loud, click than in the CLE - but I love the way the direction of light meter arrows -> shutter speed dial direction has been copied from M6 (which I also have)... very intuitive after using the M6 for some time.
What's the going price on the R2s (body only, I bought mine with a "broken" lens so difficult to gauge)... I'm toying with the idea of keeping it as a spare
What's the going price on the R2s (body only, I bought mine with a "broken" lens so difficult to gauge)... I'm toying with the idea of keeping it as a spare
glchua
Established
randomm
Well-known
So today I sold the R2. Not a bad camera, but in the end I chose to keep the CLE instead. CLE's shutter is much more quiet + its got those wonderful 28mm framelines... easy choice.
MP/CLE
Established
randomm, I think you made the right choice. My CLE's have yet to have any issues, and I'm not saying they won't, but rather that their aging electronic issues are greatly exagerated. They are the finest cameras I have owned and I sold all the Leica stuff due to their production.
I cannot say enough about their incredible production through 40 and 28 mm lenses...the rokkor 40 and the rokkor or even better, the leica m summicron 28 gives you the finest film capability at those ranges.
As the old ad goes, "I'm not just a fan, I'm a customer"...there is nothing better from this rangefinder fan's standpoint.
I cannot say enough about their incredible production through 40 and 28 mm lenses...the rokkor 40 and the rokkor or even better, the leica m summicron 28 gives you the finest film capability at those ranges.
As the old ad goes, "I'm not just a fan, I'm a customer"...there is nothing better from this rangefinder fan's standpoint.
gliderbee
Well-known
Now that typo (or was it?) will really get you in trouble
Hm ... just saw this post ... where's that delete button again
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I voted R2, since the CLE in ancient.
I voted R2, since the CLE in ancient.
Yeah, I have a CL, and would like a CLE, but more recent stuff is likely to be less problematic over the long hall.
I voted R2, since the CLE in ancient.
Yeah, I have a CL, and would like a CLE, but more recent stuff is likely to be less problematic over the long hall.