cleaning marks on DR Summicron - should I return this lens?

[JohnTF]

First, thanks to everybody for the feedback.

Well, just to put this straight (as the discussion is going into the direction whether I should clean the lens with Wodka or let the dog lick at it), the lens is not hazy or dusty, these are cleaning marks (coating damage) or even "pitting" as someone suggested on the surface of the front lens, so they won't clean away.
Sorry if I made the impression that I am on the quest for an impeccable 100% minty lens. This is not the case. I am not a collector. As stated above, there are two concerns: First, will it show in the pictures (we seem to agree that this can be found out by doing a test roll, which I will shoot later today) and second, was the price (500 Euros) fair when we take these defects into consideration or, to put it in other words, can I expect to get something "better" (=maybe not functionally better, but with a better resale value in the long run) for the same price or is this as good as it gets at the moment? The answers seem to disagree on this, so let me rephrase my question:
If I offered this lens (goggles included and stating the cleaning marks) here on RFF, would 500 Euros be a fair price for you if you were looking for a DR Summicron (for the cosmetics see below)?


L1120589small von eames68 auf Flickr


L1120590small von eames68 auf Flickr

Show up at my door, cash in hand, and I will sell you a better one complete. ;-) I can't use it on my M8 or M9, and do not need it for the others, but hey, I have trouble just cleaning the attic out.

Well, I may ask you to carry some boxes too. ;-)

Regards, John

 

[Landshark]

Return it. While scratches and cleaning marks are unavoidable for a lens this old (and for this price) this one is particularly BAD. In fact I bought a Rigid from B&H two months ago rated 8+ for US$500 and it was a bit foggy but hardly any cleaning marks. A CLA took care of of the fog.

I bought a similar quality for similar $$$ from Adorama Very clean glass, under a glass it had light cleaning wisps not marks.

If the marks on the element were light cleaning marks I'd think about keeping it.
With pecks or abrasion, I'd return it.

You're always going to be concerned about it in your mind, in six weeks or six months you will still be concerned about the marks, even if it performs well.

 

[Vics]

My DR was pretty messy when I bought it BGN from KEH. The proof was in the pictures, though. I traded it for a Summaron because I needed a wide lens, and because I thought it was just too heavy. I like the collapsible even with its flaws because I just think a Leica should be small and light.
Shoot some pix and then decide. The DR is often selling as high as $1200 nowadays.

 

[teddy]

These coating marks or pitting won't have ANY effect on your pictures. I have a nice Summicron DR with coating problems in the centre, and the images it creates are superb. I woudn't sell it, keep it as 500 is a good bargain price now days.

 

[Frontman]

If you bought the lens for shooting, keep it. As others have said, the marks will not make any difference. I sold one recently to a Chinese dealer with worse marks, and he happily paid me more than 500 euros for it.

Collectors on the other hand would not be happy with such a lens. Appearance always takes precedence over actual function. I know guys who spend a lot of money for a perfect example, which then does nothing but sit in a climate-controlled display case. I love the BGN lenses because they work 99% as well as minty lenses, but for 50% of the price.

And the DR Summicron is a unique lens. It is my go-to lens for monochrome photography. And, believe it or not, the dual-range system is actually handy, it's nice to be able to take a close-up photo with a Leica M, which is something you cannot do when using a Hexanon or other lens.

 

[Bill58]

I'd return it myself due to resale value being less than you paid for it IF you are more truthful than he was. Also give him a less than flattering feedback.

BTW--that why I buy/ sell cameras/ lenses HERE and watches off a similar watch forum instead of fleabay!

 

[joeswe]

OP here, just to inform you how everything turned out. After shooting two test rolls I returned the lens, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. Money was refunded without any problems.
About a week later on a trip to a city in the north of Germany I stepped into the local Leica shop and was quite astonished to find a nice user copy of the DR summicron for a very reasonable price (350 Euros with goggles). Not that it matters much, but it's even a very late copy of the lens (from the last batch that was produced in 1969). The barrel looks a bit worn with some scratches and marks, but the glass is in nice condition. Focus could be a bit smoother, so I'll probably have it serviced at some point, but I think for the price it is just fine. So, I'm a happy Summicron owner now!

 

[jsrockit]

I'd use it no problem...

 

[Moriturii]

OP here, just to inform you how everything turned out. After shooting two test rolls I returned the lens, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. Money was refunded without any problems.
About a week later on a trip to a city in the north of Germany I stepped into the local Leica shop and was quite astonished to find a nice user copy of the DR summicron for a very reasonable price (350 Euros with goggles). Not that it matters much, but it's even a very late copy of the lens (from the last batch that was produced in 1969). The barrel looks a bit worn with some scratches and marks, but the glass is in nice condition. Focus could be a bit smoother, so I'll probably have it serviced at some point, but I think for the price it is just fine. So, I'm a happy Summicron owner now!

I'll just put this quote right here so people can stop giving this guy advice like the last two posters.

 

[NLewis]

It sounds like you had a happy ending, but I would say that pretty much all DR Summicrons have some sort of "cleaning marks" i.e. coating damage today. There are a few minty ones that were used from day 1 with a protective filter. They tend to go for $1200-$1800 on eBay.

I got a cheap ($300-ish) DR Summicron, and ended up spending another $350 for a CLA and a front element polish and recoat from Focal Point. The result is spectacular and I don't have to worry about coating damage anymore.

The Focal Point polish/recoat affects the coating only, not the glass. So, you don't have to worry about remachining the glass. Focal Point overtly will not repair elements with glass damage like scratches and pits.

Anyone with an iffy DR Summicron should consider this. It is expensive but when you are done you have a very nice result.