Collecting Leicas vs. Using Them--Excerpt from Magazine

[jaapv]

I agree with everything that's been said about collectors. Alot of the behavior seems connected to the "look at me" syndrome. For example, about a month ago my wife asked me to pick up a digital "HDTV" camera. She had read about some digital camera she claimed could do 16:9 HDTV format. Well ,after a short trip to the local store I was introduced to the Leica Dlux2 (approx. $795 at that time). The owner is a friend and member of our local club. She indicated that the camera was simply a rebadged Panasonic LX1 (approx $440). Same camera, different skin. Some people don't mind paying the extra dollars for cosmetics. I bought the panasonic, which despite some noise issues at the higher ISO's, easily handled by neat image or noise ninja, is a very rangefinder-like camera.

I fear the HDTV "feature"as offered by Leica/Panasonic is a bit of a marketing scam. They simply lop the top and the bottom off the picture, reducing the Mp count by about 40%. One can do the same in any postprocessing program by cropping, and choose what to crop as an additional extra.....

 

[amateriat]

I agree, but a Leitz CL and a Minolta CL are essentially the same (unless I'm wrong. Please let me know.), whereas a Bessa R / R2 / R3 is completely different from anything that Leitz offers. The Leica and Panasonic digital cameras are the same as well, with radically different pricing strategies.

For example, if CV could offer a Bessa as silent as a Leica, I wouldn't hesitate in getting one. Having said that, CV offers an excellent line of cameras for not a great deal of cash.

Bingo. The shutter noise throws me as well – too much for a non-motorized RF. But since I want those damn 28mm framelines, it's either a CLE (tough or impossible to have fixed, depanding on what breaks), or just save coin for a user M6 (I've yet to get my hands on a ZI, so I shouldn't leave it off the list).


- Barrett

 

[Dougg]

...I'm a collector who used to be a "complete-ist" ie had to have every one of a series as well as variants. I quickly found out what most collectors do. You need a warehouse to keep the collection.

Today I limit myself to a few choice (to me) pieces from several producers and hit stop...

I'll agree with that last sensible approach, Jan! I used to have a collecting goal of acquiring representative samples of a specific type of item (non-photo) from every country in the world that made them. This could be done with cameras too, and as you can imagine it's easy until you get into the obscure and rare and increasingly expensive latter part where you're trying to complete the collection with that wooden Slobovian RF. You compromise on the specification, accept lower quality, and pay awful prices for items of less utility, but it's still informative and challenging. The collector sees great value in the completeness of the grouping, but this is valid only to the degree others agree with the particular goal.

In the above, I bought new/unused items without any intention of actually using them; just a bit of disassembly, as I was interested in the internal workings. I've learned my lesson, though, and will NOT get caught up in that again. I may be an accumulator of cameras but I will use them!

 

[JeffGreene]

Not a Crop

Not a Crop

I fear the HDTV "feature"as offered by Leica/Panasonic is a bit of a marketing scam. They simply lop the top and the bottom off the picture, reducing the Mp count by about 40%. One can do the same in any postprocessing program by cropping, and choose what to crop as an additional extra.....

Jaap:

In fact it is not a crop. The crops are the 3:2 and the 4:3. Here is an excerpt from the DPReview:

"16:9 uses the entire CCD, whereas the 3:2 mode lops half a million pixels off each side and 4:3 crops out a million pixels from each side. As well as reducing the number of pixels in the final image, changing the aspect ratio also increases the equivalent focal length, so the 28-112mm lens in 16:9 mode becomes a 34-136mm lens when you switch to 4:3 mode. "

The link is here


Panasonic built their own unique HDTV shaped sensor for the camera.

 

[Harry Lime]

I remember, on my first (and, so far, only) trip to France in 1992, when I wasted little time in making a bee-line to the Louvre, and had my first encounter with the Mona Lisa, where I was shocked to discover (1), the work was a lot smaller than I had imagined (show of hands: how may others were caught off-guard by this?), and (2) that is was protected by a serious, multi-paneled frame of Plexiglas. One-and-a-half-times removed, in a way.em to potentially great use).
- Barrett

There's a good reason why the Mona Lisa is behind glass. The painting has been attacked and severely damaged on several occasions, by disturbed individuals.

 

[justins7]

picking at the bones left by the vultures

picking at the bones left by the vultures

I remember 10 pre-internet years ago, when camera prices were higher, I would go to camera shows in New York and become absolutely livid around these collectors. Japanese men in suits would plunk down suitcases full of cash and walk away with all the Leica lenses any of us normal folks needed. These disgusting fiends were robbing the market of useful tools. I was thus forced to buy damaged or banged-up Leicas instead; picking at the bones left by the vultures.

Someone really needs to do a study of the collector mentality. I have a friend who has basically ruined his life by obsessively collecting massive, vintage power tools. The guy has injured himself, put himself in debt, stressed his marriage, pissed-off his friends by piling more and more vintage crap into his life.

 

[luketrash]

I'm sure someone has studied it, but try getting the collectors to take their pills 😉

 

[tenebrae]

I feel that Leicas should be used, not collected. I take pictures with all cameras I have. But while using them, it doesn't hurt being careful with them. Not overprotectively, but like, not carrying your Leica banging around in a bag with two tins of cat food. Not wiping your lens with a sandy rag. Not lending it to your clumsy, butterfingered neighbor. And yes, even though you're careful, your equipment will acquire use marks. But Leicas are sturdy enough to withstand a fair amount of (ab)use and still function properly.

People who collect shrink wrapped Leicas may do so (i) as a serious investment (which is not a bad choice after all, considering you get a next to nothing return on your savings account nowadays), or (ii) as a status symbol (cameras have a high value-to-volume ratio) or (iii) as some psycho thing (and in that case I prefer shrink-wrapped-Leica collectors to people who collect shrink wrapped skulls in their basements).

 

[Buze]

I've heard that shooting a Leica with the shrinkwrap on the camera and lens is the secret of the Leica glow !






/me runs for the hills 😀

 

[Bertram2]

Actually the real collector has Leica remove all lubricant. If one wants to use such a camera it has to be relubricated.

Yes, the hard core bunch does that, but the wannabees, who are neither real collectors nor any sorta photographers , rather hoarders than collectors, these folks mostly have no clue what they do to that camera by not using it.

bertram

 

[Bertram2]

The collector sees great value in the completeness of the grouping, but this is valid only to the degree others agree with the particular goal.
!

Describes well the central point of this phenomenon, the driving force so to say. One of the most spectacular groups are the model railroaders, I've known folks with houses full of stuff, worth sometimes up to Euro 200.000,-
But if something new comes out they have to buy it anyway, otherwise they weren't "complete" any more, as you said.

bertram

 

[ch1]

There's a good reason why the Mona Lisa is behind glass. The painting has been attacked and severely damaged on several occasions, by disturbed individuals.

IIRC wasn't it also stolen back in the 1960's?

Thanks for pointing out that the plexiglass is a security prophylactic and not a "collector" matter.

 

[Ken Ford]

Describes well the central point of this phenomenon, the driving force so to say. One of the most spectacular groups are the model railroaders, I've known folks with houses full of stuff, worth sometimes up to Euro 200.000,-
But if something new comes out they have to buy it anyway, otherwise they weren't "complete" any more, as you said.

bertram

Bertram, those are collectors, not modelers!

 

[Bertram2]

Bertram, those are collectors, not modelers!

Ken,
those guys i knew had built up a 30qm model railway scene AND cupboards full of stuff additionally, hard to say where the modeler ends and the hoarder or the collector begins.
Maybe those were more hoarders, they still used some of the stuff at least and for collectors they weren't systematic enuff in their acquisition. "Borderline" one could say. The transition to the insanity of true collecting happens easily. 😉

bertram

 

[jaapv]

Jaap:

In fact it is not a crop. The crops are the 3:2 and the 4:3. Here is an excerpt from the DPReview:

"16:9 uses the entire CCD, whereas the 3:2 mode lops half a million pixels off each side and 4:3 crops out a million pixels from each side. As well as reducing the number of pixels in the final image, changing the aspect ratio also increases the equivalent focal length, so the 28-112mm lens in 16:9 mode becomes a 34-136mm lens when you switch to 4:3 mode. "

The link is here


Panasonic built their own unique HDTV shaped sensor for the camera.

Interesting; I didn't know that, I assumed they did it the same way they did the Digilux2, which is exactly the other way around. That makes it a pretty nice camera for panorama-shots.
Now that should teach me never to assume anything where Leica/Panasonic are concerned :bang:

 

[JeffGreene]

Jaap:

I guess that's why we're all waiting to see what accommodations the Digital M's from Leica and Zeiss will incorporate. People have written about not committing until there's a full (i.e. 35mm)-sized sensor available. Frankly, I was one of them until I had the opportunity to see RD1 output from its APS-sized (6MP) sensor.

 

[jaapv]

"Full frame" is, imo, a marketing ploy by Canon to compensate for their inability to produce really good WA zooms. There is a good case to be made for the use of 1.5 or 1.3 crop sensors, even for the 2/3"sensor. In the end, I am sure, the 35 mm sensor will have the same place as medium format now, i.e. high-resolution, over 12 MP, very low noise, but bulky camera's and lenses-and expensive. APS -sized and 2/3 will have the position of currrent 35 mm camera's, the best compromise between quality and bulk/weight ranging from expensive for high-end use to very good at reasonable prices at 8 to 12 MP. Anything below those camera's needn't concern us here, it will be aimed at any market-niche you can imagine. But the APS-sensor DSLR's and DRF's will be a lot better than the equivalent filmcamera's, they actually are right now already. *THERE!! I said it. It hurts, but doesn't the unpleasant truth hurt always?*

 

[JeffGreene]

In all fairness 🙂 let's wait until Photokina. It may not be as unpleasant as you think. Epson had the temerity to take that first swing at the digital M "gold ring". Their inability to market their product effectively and be responsive to their customers in a timely manner will probably relegate the RD1 to the "also ran" niche, but who knows. All I know is that I'm really enjoying my "also ran" while I wait. I think Zeiss's solution will be more cost-effective and thus more accessible to many of us here on the forum. I'm using the ZI as my data referent. But as we all know, it's just pure speculation on anyone's part at this point!

 

[jaapv]

Actually I already pre-ordered my M8 🙂

 

[MP/CLE]

I know a collector turned liquidator which I have benefitted from... but for him I wouldn't be talking to you now... good stuff. I use the stuff though, unlike the "unused, in box" I got from him. More to come...