back alley
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i love the discussion but not the personal attacks on each other, please don't make me close this thread.
joe
joe
Pappy
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You mean no one leaves you comments like:
Woah! Some one should buy this quick!
Beautiful camera! Good luck with the sale.
Oh man, I'd jump on this if I had any money!
Hey, I have the same model. Great lens!
You're lucky.
Another thing. Why don't sellers hit the "sold it" button when it's sold? Some guys just leave the ad there taking up space.
climbing_vine
Well-known
Who are you, and what's wrong with you? You're going back in the thread to make one-line cracks at my posts, calling names like a child, and you aren't sure why I think you're a little nutty?
And it's obvious that your original comment was meant as a joke re: public option in health care, blah blah blah. Yes, we get it. You don't like "communists". You were trying to take a dump on a perfectly reasonable discussion that the adults were having with juvenile red-baiting passive-aggressively disguised as a joke. It was transparently intended as a personal attack on anyone who was disagreeing with Fred--the tone and the angel smiley are, well, sort of a dead giveaway. You acted like a child, and you got called out for it. Just let it go and move on.
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thomasw_
Well-known
Your position is contrary to RFF policy, but even if it weren't I think your position is just bad for the common good.
Scenario 1: A common good is best served by no one discussing the price publicly of any item. It keeps the peace and concord, no one gets special treatment by having their item-pricing critiqued publicly. Of course nothing stops you from privately PM-ing a seller to let him know what you think and why. But to do so publicly works against the common good and the peace of the forum.
Scenario 2: Regarding pricing, the only person who needs to care is the buyer; why should I or anyone else care that someone is willing to buy an old Zorki or M3 for a large sum? I can see no one's interests at stake other than the buyer's interests. But that's why all the research needs to be done by a wise buyer. This is not consumer reports or a gov't board controlling trade, no one here has any duty to police the pricing. There are risks in a free market.
climbing_vine
Well-known
There *is* no free market if prices are not public and subject to discussion. That is not a free market, it is a secret raffle.
Your first point might have some merit though. I wonder where the balance is between that peace, vs. the goodwill that comes from some degree of transparency (and hence, trust).
benlees
Well-known
I do enjoy how people enjoy quoting RFF policy and then expound on the qualities of free markets!
gdi
Veteran
You are calling me nutty? Maybe you are confusing your own posts with mine! I never said you were a child - but you called me sophomoric, juvenile, passive aggressive, and what else?
SO why don't you let it go and shut up with the insults. You cannot always shut people up with your insults and bullying comments. Sometimes a joke is just a joke - even when you feel it is your ox that is getting gored. I never made any comments about communism, I wasn't red-baiting, or passive aggressive in my intent.
Again - it was just a joke - now go sit down.
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thomasw_
Well-known
There is still etiquette in a free market; it doesn't exclude it.
thomasw_
Well-known
Yes there is. It is the context of where that discussion ought to take place that is important here.
climbing_vine
Well-known
I guess I don't see how that's possible. To my eye, there can't be the requisite open competition without people knowing what everyone is willing to pay for a given good or service.
A person could make an interesting argument that private pricing gets closer to the "real" value of goods, for definitions of "real" that mean only personal value, excluding external considerations. I don't know that I would find it convincing, but it could be an interesting argument.
However, that doesn't seem to be at all a "free market", so I guess that's what I'm curious about.
back alley
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ya know, if we are gonna talk about rff being a community...then folks buying and selling are part of that community and being a part of this community means (to me) to be active in the threads. being active should give us an idea of what the going rate for gear is, lord knows we talk enough of gear.
why is it necessary to talk about the price of gear (especially if there is no intention to buy) in an ad? why piss on someone's 5 bucks?
why is it necessary to talk about the price of gear (especially if there is no intention to buy) in an ad? why piss on someone's 5 bucks?
benlees
Well-known
We need to cut to the chase. RFF classifieds are not free market simply because as an international market we are subject to differences in currency value. That alone gives certain people advantages or disadvantages that are strong enough to influence whether or not they want to be involved. If RFF advocated people piping up and questioning what might be construed as an inappropriate price (a ''negative comment'') then it could be said to be closer to laissex-faire economics. Does this please the capitlaists?
You know, turning off comments in the Classified Ads will probably be a good thing.
And sometimes, turning them off in a thread is as well.
And sometimes, turning them off in a thread is as well.
climbing_vine
Well-known
If I understand you right, you're saying that nobody will be taken in by BS ads if they are an active member of the community?
That doesn't sound totally unreasonable, except that for all the gear talk in threads I (personally) see very little price discussion, except when it's of the "You won't believe what I found at Goodwill for $10" variety. Maybe I'm wrong?
I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that we'd expect any buyer who wants to be fully informed to be a forum regular, while any random joe can (and recently, does) post for sale ads. Doesn't really seem equitable, but it doesn't rise to the level of a travesty or anything either.
Really? No discussion on price in the forum?
Have you tried asking for advice on pricing?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76165
Have you tried asking for advice on pricing?
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76165
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
So Joe ... wy don't you stretch out on the nice comfy couch here and tell me when you first developed this need to hand everyone bricks and encourage them to throw them at you?
gdi
Veteran
I don't think it is necessary for the buyer to have access to all individual opinions in order to have a "free market", and it is not practical in any case. The reliability of sources like KEH, and eBay sales will invariably be higher than individual opinions regarding worth of an item. In many cases the people offering the pricing criticism may be ill-informed and the information provided will be detrimental to consumating a fair trade.
Now hiding information about a an item, like defects, or mistating the condition is obviously a problem. But most people viewing an ad would not be in a position to know that - and if they were they can always inform a mod.
The buyers have access to a great amount of public information now and they need to avail themselves of it. I don't see a problem with the RFF policy.
climbing_vine
Well-known
Well, sure, if someone asks.
I thought the postulation was that someone who's a regular would see this sort of thing all the time. That brings up an interesting question: could someone, instead of a theoretical "what's a fair price?", post a "does ad XYZ have a fair price?" thread without it getting deleted?
back alley
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So Joe ... wy don't you stretch out on the nice comfy couch here and tell me when you first developed this need to hand everyone bricks and encourage them to throw them at you?
it all started when i was a young youth...
maybe i should stick to threads about wrist straps...just got a new one today!
back alley
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Well, sure, if someone asks.
That brings up an interesting question: could someone, instead of a theoretical "what's a fair price?", post a "does ad XYZ have a fair price?" thread without it getting deleted?
probably not...