hyun5suk
Member
I made comparison between Jupiter-3 and C-Sonnar ZM 50.
I used same camera(R2a) and I shoted with one lens and changed lens.
I set same F/numbers, and used AE(but almost same exposure time)
The first one is by Jupiter-3 and the second is by C-Sonnar ZM50.
How do you think about these pictures?
I used same camera(R2a) and I shoted with one lens and changed lens.
I set same F/numbers, and used AE(but almost same exposure time)
The first one is by Jupiter-3 and the second is by C-Sonnar ZM50.
How do you think about these pictures?
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Sam N
Well-known
Do you mind if I upload these to my hosting so that people can see them?
edit: Here they are.
I've posted the photos from this thread and the other thread... might as well just use one thread.
edit: Here they are.
I've posted the photos from this thread and the other thread... might as well just use one thread.
Sam N
Well-known
It's difficult to compare these shots for a few reasons:
1) a tripod wasn't used, so the camera position is slightly different between the lenses
2) some of the jpegs are more compressed than others. For example, in the ones labeled 009, the ZM photo is far more compressed than the J3 shot. (edit: this is fixed now)
3) The focus point doesn't seem to be the same in every shot. For example, in 009 the J3 is focused on the back wall while the C-Sonnar is focused on the tree.
4) Photos 011 doesn't seem to be at the same aperture for both lenses, either that or the C-sonnar was very misfocused.
With that said:
The C-Sonnar seems to flare differently (see 004).
The J-3 has a more yellow/warm cast to the colors (leaves in 010 for example, and any color shot really). This is similar to the results I got when I compared my CV40MC to a J-8.
Bokeh is VERY different in photos 014. The C-Sonnar again seems focused further away than the J-3.
1) a tripod wasn't used, so the camera position is slightly different between the lenses
2) some of the jpegs are more compressed than others. For example, in the ones labeled 009, the ZM photo is far more compressed than the J3 shot. (edit: this is fixed now)
3) The focus point doesn't seem to be the same in every shot. For example, in 009 the J3 is focused on the back wall while the C-Sonnar is focused on the tree.
4) Photos 011 doesn't seem to be at the same aperture for both lenses, either that or the C-sonnar was very misfocused.
With that said:
The C-Sonnar seems to flare differently (see 004).
The J-3 has a more yellow/warm cast to the colors (leaves in 010 for example, and any color shot really). This is similar to the results I got when I compared my CV40MC to a J-8.
Bokeh is VERY different in photos 014. The C-Sonnar again seems focused further away than the J-3.
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hyun5suk
Member
hyun5suk
Member
I am very thanks for your comment.
--------------------------
It's difficult to compare these shots for a few reasons:
1) a tripod wasn't used, so the camera position is slightly different between the lenses
-> That's very true. I made shots in hand, but I tried to take same scene.
2) some of the jpegs are more compressed than others. For example, in the ones labeled 009, the ZM photo is far more compressed than the J3 shot.
-> I have no idea about that. All picture have taken same process.
3) The focus point doesn't seem to be the same in every shot. For example, in 009 the J3 is focused on the back wall while the C-Sonnar is focused on the tree.
-> I tried to focus same spot with two lens.
4) Photos 011 doesn't seem to be at the same aperture for both lenses, either that or the C-sonnar was very misfocused.
-> You are right, but I tried to focus same spot with same F/number. I am not sure. It can be because C-sonnar's focus shift ??
With that said:
The C-Sonnar seems to flare differently (see 004).
The J-3 has a more yellow/warm cast to the colors (leaves in 010 for example, and any color shot really). This is similar to the results I got when I compared my CV40MC to a J-8.
-> You are right, I also feel that.
Bokeh is VERY different in photos 014. The C-Sonnar again seems focused further away than the J-3.
-> Again, I tried to focus same spot with two lens.
--------------------------
It's difficult to compare these shots for a few reasons:
1) a tripod wasn't used, so the camera position is slightly different between the lenses
-> That's very true. I made shots in hand, but I tried to take same scene.
2) some of the jpegs are more compressed than others. For example, in the ones labeled 009, the ZM photo is far more compressed than the J3 shot.
-> I have no idea about that. All picture have taken same process.
3) The focus point doesn't seem to be the same in every shot. For example, in 009 the J3 is focused on the back wall while the C-Sonnar is focused on the tree.
-> I tried to focus same spot with two lens.
4) Photos 011 doesn't seem to be at the same aperture for both lenses, either that or the C-sonnar was very misfocused.
-> You are right, but I tried to focus same spot with same F/number. I am not sure. It can be because C-sonnar's focus shift ??
With that said:
The C-Sonnar seems to flare differently (see 004).
The J-3 has a more yellow/warm cast to the colors (leaves in 010 for example, and any color shot really). This is similar to the results I got when I compared my CV40MC to a J-8.
-> You are right, I also feel that.
Bokeh is VERY different in photos 014. The C-Sonnar again seems focused further away than the J-3.
-> Again, I tried to focus same spot with two lens.
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Sam N
Well-known
Sorry, this was my fault. I've fixed it now and all the files are the correct ones.
By the way, I have a feeling that shots 014 were mislabeled. The current labeling has the J-3 with the cooler colors, which contradicts all the other color shots. Also, the C-Sonnar is focusing in front of the J-3 in all the other photos except for that one. There may be some sort of problem with either your LTM->M adapter (more likely) or your C-Sonnar.
In shots 009, were you focusing on the back wall or on the branches of the tree?
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laptoprob
back to basics
Contrast is lower on the Jupiter. This is to be expected when comparing a 50's lens to a modern one. Nice to see the bokeh is quite similar. There is nothing like a sonnar.
Do you find close-focus shift in both lenses?
For a better comparison, don't use AE. Especially for the night shots.
Do you find close-focus shift in both lenses?
For a better comparison, don't use AE. Especially for the night shots.
nzeeman
Well-known
i think j3 held pretty good compared to zm in this test. i can see some improvements in contrast in zm but that is matter of taste. someone likes low someone high contrast. only thing which show more difference is focus - that should be checked more.
it would be nice if someone do real world test for that focus in zm - so many stories about it but everybody look at charts... anyway both are very nice - as laptoprob say - old sonnars, what else?
it would be nice if someone do real world test for that focus in zm - so many stories about it but everybody look at charts... anyway both are very nice - as laptoprob say - old sonnars, what else?
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
For me the differences seem small and the two lenses definitely have the Sonnar family look. A J-3 in good working condition remains a bargain for that very reason. You got to love that Sonnar look. If you have a J-3 it makes you wonder if you should trade up to the new Zeiss.
Bob
Bob
Sam N
Well-known
With the ZM you get the advantages of aperture click-stops, better coatings/color reproduction, and the possibility of buying a new lens guaranteed to have no scratches / dings / etc.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
This is very true but at a cost of almost $900.00 difference for me. I don't use a 50mm much and I did get lucky first crack with the J-3 so for me it was worth it. I am not saying the they are equal in build quality or even in image quality, only that the J-3s are/were a relative bargain.
Bob
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Might be an idea to post, say, a half dozen pictures here on RFF so that they can be seen easily.
raid
Dad Photographer
I will soon compare these two 50mm lenses in more detail. I may have four examples of the J3 available to me and two examples of the ZM. The J3 is not in the same cost group as the ZM, so a direct "which lens is better" comparison is not applicable. The ZM is a modern design lens that also costs much more than the typical $75-$125 for a clean J-3.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I would disagree that comparing them directly is not possible or desirable simply because the ZM cost far greater money. I think it is all the more reason to do direct a comparison as it would be interesting to see how far we may or may not have come in the lens world. I think a lot of folks would like to make up their own minds on weather or not the extra cash layout is worth it to them personally. I have no doubt that the ZM is superior but it is the cost to performance ratio that also factors into a decision to buy or not to by a lens.
Bob
raid
Dad Photographer
Hi Bob,
I was thinking of my test when I said what I said above. The first test is to shoot into a scene where a bare light bulb is the "model". Vintage lenses cannot stand up to the modern lenses with multicoating and better flare control.
I do not own a single expensive RF lens, so I love my J-3.
Cheers.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
I wholeheartedly agree that there are these differences but if you know what they are and can live with the performance for your use of the J-3 you can save a bunch. I find I just live with it and work around it when I can.
Bob
raid
Dad Photographer
Me too, Bob. I avoid strong light sources and I favor portraits by the window or in the open shade of a porch.
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40oz
...
So, these shots are from an LTM J-3 and a ZM Sonnar 50/1.5? And the order is J-3, then ZM?
Sam N
Well-known
Yes. The filenames are labeled too. The only exception are the last 2 images, which I think are reversed.
I'm still curious about the focusing anomalies. Was the LTM adapter too thin (causing backfocus) or was the Sonnar just front-focusing? Any input Hyun?
I'm still curious about the focusing anomalies. Was the LTM adapter too thin (causing backfocus) or was the Sonnar just front-focusing? Any input Hyun?
hyun5suk
Member
Sam N, I am very thank for your kind support and comment for this thread.
-----------
Yes. The filenames are labeled too. The only exception are the last 2 images, which I think are reversed.
-> Yes, You're right. The last 2 images are changed, that was my mistake,
I'm still curious about the focusing anomalies. Was the LTM adapter too thin (causing backfocus) or was the Sonnar just front-focusing? Any input Hyun?
-> Um. That is little complicated.
My j-3 is not orignal status. The first time I got this from e-bay, this lens show serious back focus.
So I recalibrationed this by adding shim thickness according to Brian Sweeney's great guide.
My reshimming may be incomplete, I will check it later.
About ZM's front-focuse, I don't have any idea. -_-.
I will post several images about J-3 and C-Sonnar's focus.
All picturea were taken in same conditions with changing F/number from 1.5 to 4.0, and I might try to focus the stain in the middle of the iron rod.(I could not remember exactly which stain I tried...)
I don't know if these can give you answer or not. ^^'
PS:How I can post images on this forum without problem?
-> I have posted images again via Flickr.
I hope this time has no problem...
J-3 F/1.5
J-3 F/2.0
J-3 F/2.8
J-3 F/4.0
C-Sonnar F/1.5
C-Sonnar F/2.0
C-Sonnar F/2.8
C-Sonnar F/4.0
-----------
Yes. The filenames are labeled too. The only exception are the last 2 images, which I think are reversed.
-> Yes, You're right. The last 2 images are changed, that was my mistake,
I'm still curious about the focusing anomalies. Was the LTM adapter too thin (causing backfocus) or was the Sonnar just front-focusing? Any input Hyun?
-> Um. That is little complicated.
My j-3 is not orignal status. The first time I got this from e-bay, this lens show serious back focus.
So I recalibrationed this by adding shim thickness according to Brian Sweeney's great guide.
My reshimming may be incomplete, I will check it later.
About ZM's front-focuse, I don't have any idea. -_-.
I will post several images about J-3 and C-Sonnar's focus.
All picturea were taken in same conditions with changing F/number from 1.5 to 4.0, and I might try to focus the stain in the middle of the iron rod.(I could not remember exactly which stain I tried...)
I don't know if these can give you answer or not. ^^'
PS:How I can post images on this forum without problem?
-> I have posted images again via Flickr.
I hope this time has no problem...
J-3 F/1.5
J-3 F/2.0
J-3 F/2.8
J-3 F/4.0
C-Sonnar F/1.5
C-Sonnar F/2.0
C-Sonnar F/2.8
C-Sonnar F/4.0
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