Congratulations to all Americans!

[splitimageview]

"Nanny state" is an insult thrown around by people who want to control the minute details of how everyone else lives their lives.

The "Nanny state" is exactly what you state: people (namely, socialist elites) who want to control the minute details of how everyone else lives their lives.

Rep. John Dingell (D-Michigan) said it best a few days ago:

"The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."

These representatives took an oath upon election to support and defend the Constitution -- not to “control the people."

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

Indeed. That's when health rationing starts.

It's also when America loses it's military might, as the funds will not sustain both the Nanny state and the military.

One can have Euro-style entitlements, or global military might, but not both.

What will happen when those who cannot protect themselves, such as the Norways and Swedens, no longer have the blanket of American security? Those states are who they are because America is what it is today...

As America declines into socialism, who will be there for America as America was for Europe?

 

[splitimageview]

Here is Obama campaigning against the very bill that he ultimately signed.

Fines or jail!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOJBiklP1Q&feature=player_embedded

 

[Olsen]

Here's a glimpse as to the end-game of European stateism, Greece (they are near default), and it seems their high-minded EU friends won't keep them on the dole:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awgDP17rsJ70

By the way, this may also lead to the failure of the Euro, the crown jewel of European unity. But, ....I suppose this is all Bush's fault right!

Margert Thatcher, the greatest European leader of modern times had it right when she said:

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

It's already happening here, and may in fact have happen before the "Health Care Reform" bill even takes effect, if it's not repealed or thrown out in court before then (and it may well be).

By the way (unlike many of the supporters here of Obama care) I've lived in Europe and Canada and had extensive interaction with the health care systems there. Frankly they suck compared to what we have here. I have European friends that travel to the US at their own great expense to see American doctors and Canadian friends that complain to me constantly about the quality of care.

If the Obama health care take-over ever actually occurs, whether you are on the left or right, Americans won't like it. That much I'm really certain of. In fact sometimes I think we should try more of these Utopian left-wing schemes just so the population can get a thorough drubbing in the consequences of their failure and hopefully learn something.

Wall Street Journal - and now also Bloomberg, try to talk the Euro down. There is no doubt that Greece is in deep economical problems. Their 'federal debt' is 120% of their GDP. The US Federal debt is now at 100% - and will reach 120% by the end of 2012 - or sooner.

The value of the Euro and dollar is decided not by Bloomberg or WSJ, but by the trust of investors and depositors world wide. While Bloomberg/WSJ do the talking, the Chinese are selling dollars and buying Euro. The more they manage to talk the Euro down, the better investment they will do, in the end.

The US Federal Government has 'given' a few trillions of dollars to the largest US banks. It is the US tax payers, ordinary men and women, who have to serve this debt. About 30% - at least, of the tax bill of ordinary Americans is interest on this federal debt. - Talk of 'other people's money'...

The greatest difference between USA and Europe is that in USA it is socialism for the few, while it is socialism for all in Europe.

 

[varjag]

I'll bet most Americans here don't realize that in many (if not all - I've not been to all) European countries one has to register with the police when you move.

Normally you register with municipality where you move to. It's not really so much a measure of control, but a way to deliver your post to right address and collect local tax properly.

Now, it's plausible that in Nazi Germany one should've done that. How old you say was your friend, again?

 

[Olsen]

I'll bet most Americans here don't realize that in many (if not all - I've not been to all) European countries one has to register with the police when you move. In some other countries one also has to register with the Church (these countries all have national churches, despite the general lack of interest in what they stand for - witness the previous poster remarks). One must also carry "papers" with you and present them on demand to authorities. This is strong-armed statism and we just don't pine to that sort of thing here.

Sorry, but tis is BS.

I know of no country in Europe where citizens have to register when moving. Foreign citizens might. Just as foreign must do in USA. Register with the church? Ha, ha! We are flock of non believers over here. Most of us won't know where the church is. If there is a church.

The anti terror regime in USA most Americans live under far heavier 'strong armed state-ism' than in Europe.

Have you been to Europe...?

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'll bet most Americans here don't realize that in many (if not all - I've not been to all) European countries one has to register with the police when you move. In some other countries one also has to register with the Church (these countries all have national churches, despite the general lack of interest in what they stand for - witness the previous poster remarks). One must also carry "papers" with you and present them on demand to authorities. This is strong-armed statism and we just don't pine to that sort of thing here.

Most Europeans don't realize it either, largely because it's not true.

Which countries require you to register with the church?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Here's a glimpse as to the end-game of European stateism, Greece (they are near default), and it seems their high-minded EU friends won't keep them on the dole:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=awgDP17rsJ70

By the way, this may also lead to the failure of the Euro, the crown jewel of European unity. But, ....I suppose this is all Bush's fault right!

Margert Thatcher, the greatest European leader of modern times had it right when she said:

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

It's already happening here, and may in fact have happen before the "Health Care Reform" bill even takes effect, if it's not repealed or thrown out in court before then (and it may well be).

By the way (unlike many of the supporters here of Obama care) I've lived in Europe and Canada and had extensive interaction with the health care systems there. Frankly they suck compared to what we have here. I have European friends that travel to the US at their own great expense to see American doctors and Canadian friends that complain to me constantly about the quality of care.

If the Obama health care take-over ever actually occurs, whether you are on the left or right, Americans won't like it. That much I'm really certain of. In fact sometimes I think we should try more of these Utopian left-wing schemes just so the population can get a thorough drubbing in the consequences of their failure and hopefully learn something.

Or possibly the greatest destroyer of British consensus. To qote an even more famous saying of the Maggon, "There is no such thing as society."

If anyone genuinely believes that, I feel deeply sorry for them, but I also feel very angry that they want to destroy the foundations of decency.

Your "European friends that travel to the US at their own great expense to see American doctors" do not, by definition, include the poor. Presumably the poor can just **** off and die.

EDIT: There's also a strange American belief that private medicine cannot coexist with socialized medicine. It does in the UK and France (and elsewhere too, but I've no direct experience). Do Americans believe that Harley Street is on the NHS?

Cheers,

R.

 

[sevo]

I know of no country in Europe where citizens have to register when moving. Foreign citizens might. Just as foreign must do in USA. Register with the church? Ha, ha! We are flock of non believers over here. Most of us won't know where the church is. If there is a church.

Well, you have to register your place of permanent residence with the registrars office ("Meldeamt", a communal board while the police is generally state or federal run) in Germany. Supposedly a relic of the Nazis which the subsequent allied occupation and cold war regimes found too handy to abolish. The same may go for Austria or Italy, thanks to a mutual history, but it is not "common in all Europe" and even here, you do not register with the police, even though the police station and registrar might share space in the town hall in towns and smaller cities.

As to "registering with the church". Nope, not even in the Republic of Ireland where the church has (or rather had) rather excessive power and influence. Churches tend to attempt to keep track of their congregation, of course - but given the low relevance and small active membership churches have in Europe, I strongly suspect that to be a much more significant phenomenon in the US. Personally the only time I ever experienced a whole bunch of parsons and vicars welcoming me to figure out whether that strange newcomer might be one of their flock was in the US.

Sevo

 

[Leigh Youdale]

, America is the envy of the world.

Where did you get that idea? It's very 1950's.

 

[Olsen]

The "Nanny state" is exactly what you state: people (namely, socialist elites) who want to control the minute details of how everyone else lives their lives.

Rep. John Dingell (D-Michigan) said it best a few days ago:

"The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."

These representatives took an oath upon election to support and defend the Constitution -- not to “control the people."



Indeed. That's when health rationing starts.

It's also when America loses it's military might, as the funds will not sustain both the Nanny state and the military.

One can have Euro-style entitlements, or global military might, but not both.

What will happen when those who cannot protect themselves, such as the Norways and Swedens, no longer have the blanket of American security? Those states are who they are because America is what it is today...

As America declines into socialism, who will be there for America as America was for Europe?

All of you assumptions of Europe is based on myths. Which I think is sad. Take a trip to Europe. Now that the Euro is so low.

Typical for a Social Democratic state is an egalitarian state; small differences between the rich and poor. Well, everything is relative, but not many European bank managers make so much money as the American bank managers. But, I am in no doubt that an unemployed is far better off in, say, Germany or Finland than in USA. USA is far more a society based on an elite dominating just about everything else.

- You need no control over the population to serve them a decent health care system. Less so than prying for terrorists.

If I had to chose between a health care state or a global defence system, I would chose the first. I think NATO is a corrupt weapons monopoly. We, nations like Swedens and Norways, bankroll all too much of US weapons industry. - Again; other people's money. No, I don't think that Iran represents a threat to my freedom. It might be a threat to Israel, but I refuse to go to nuke war to defend some illegal buildings on the West Bank.

I am convinced that USA would prosper from a little socialism. Not the least within education. By letting the real talents get a education. Not just those students backed by money. You simply have to make such reforms. Or you will be overtaken by China and India. _A small dash of socialism would make life far more pleasant for the lower middle class and the poor. - Not just the bank managers.

 

[Roger Hicks]

On the subject of the nanny state -- why not light another fuse? -- there is the stance of the religious right wing on abortion.

Very few people are in favour of abortion for the fun of it. It's just that most intelligent adults who are not blinded by religion are able to understand that sometimes (far from always), the alternatives to a legal abortion are even worse.

Cheers,

R.

 

[David Murphy]

Wall Street Journal - and now also Bloomberg, try to talk the Euro down. There is no doubt that Greece is in deep economical problems. Their 'federal debt' is 120% of their GDP. The US Federal debt is now at 100% - and will reach 120% by the end of 2012 - or sooner.

The value of the Euro and dollar is decided not by Bloomberg or WSJ, but by the trust of investors and depositors world wide. While Bloomberg/WSJ do the talking, the Chinese are selling dollars and buying Euro. The more they manage to talk the Euro down, the better investment they will do, in the end.

The US Federal Government has 'given' a few trillions of dollars to the largest US banks. It is the US tax payers, ordinary men and women, who have to serve this debt. About 30% - at least, of the tax bill of ordinary Americans is interest on this federal debt. - Talk of 'other people's money'...

The greatest difference between USA and Europe is that in USA it is socialism for the few, while it is socialism for all in Europe.

Olsen, sorry if I disappoint you but I basically agree with you! We are in dire straights here, almost as bad as Greece, and the bank/Wall Street bail-out was a travesty. I don't believe in socialism for the few either. However I also don't believe in it for the masses.

 

[Olsen]

Personally the only time I ever experienced a whole bunch of parsons and vicars welcoming me to figure out whether that strange newcomer might be one of their flock was in the US.

Sevo

Ha, ha!

I am a rare kind of christian; a catholic Norwegian. But I just found out that I am also registered with protestant Church of Norway. They want me to participate in their elections.

I have income from and pay taxes to two different European nations, Norway and Sweden, and have to produce a filled in tax return document to Singapore too. So, I know a little about registering. I can well imagine that all this is easier in USA: It is the same forms, the same law and the same language. Over here; Europe is a range of nations with different laws, languages and traditions.

 

[remphoto]

then the 38% understand that such legal action is fruitless.



They have all the reason to. Not on the Health Care issue, though.



No wonder when a 2 trillion dollar industry has hammered in it's message. But it could not go on anymore. This shows what enormous victory this bill was.



They will go up! Or at least, the medic industry will try to increase their prices. The real issue is; what will the US government do with that?



Agree. But the new Health Care Bill is still a good thing. Could we see US troops pull out of Iraq and Afganistan (Saudi Arabia, South Korea etc) and a real wash-out of Wall Street, it would be just fine.



But still they will understand enough to make a intelligent vote on it.



I would agree again, - but not regarding the new health care bill.

So...

None of these statistical results points to any 'landslide' opposition to the new health care bill.

Very interesting, my friend, how you have interpreted the meaning of these polls and claim they have nothing to do with a dislike of the healthcare bill. 🙂 To what do you attribute the results of the recent Massachusetts, New Jersey and Virginia elections? Here's a hint: it had nothing to do with personalities, Fox News or misguided voters who just did not understand the wonder of BHO/Reid/Pelosi. The proof will be in the November elections. 🙂

 

[Leigh Youdale]

You simply have to make such reforms. Or you will be overtaken by China and India. .

Having worked in both countries in recent years I affirm this. I believe it will be China, simply because India has a weak federal government structure whereas China has a strong one. Never mind the politics - the practicalities will determine the outcome.

Anyway, maybe Australia will overtake the USA! A couple of years ago our dollar was trading at USD 0.61. Today it's USD 0.91. If the value of the US dollar can fall by 50% in just three years against the AUD it rather gives the finger to flamboyant statements about America's economic grandeur and enviable position in the world.

Reading these posts reminds me of an old saying - "There are none so blind as those that will not see".

 

[Olsen]

Having worked in both countries in recent years I affirm this. I believe it will be China, simply because India has a weak federal government structure whereas China has a strong one. Never mind the politics - the practicalities will determine the outcome.

Anyway, maybe Australia will overtake the USA! A couple of years ago our dollar was trading at USD 0.61. Today it's USD 0.91. If the value of the US dollar can fall by 50% in just three years against the AUD it rather gives the finger to flamboyant statements about America's economic grandeur and enviable position in the world.

Reading these posts reminds me of an old saying - "There are none so blind as those that will not see".

Finally, a guy from a country with a decent government!

Possibly the only country in the world with a sound policy of finance. The AU$ is probably the strongest currency in the world right now. Thanks to that the Australian government and central bank understands that when the international banking system is down and just about every nation in the world is drowning in debt, - the price of borrowing money should be kept up. We are all in awe.

 

[David Murphy]

Finally, a guy from a country with a decent government!

Possibly the only country in the world with a sound policy of finance. The AU$ is probably the strongest currency in the world right now. Thanks to that the Australian government and central bank understands that when the international banking system is down and just about every nation in the world is drowning in debt, - the price of borrowing money should be kept up. We are all in awe.

Having boatloads of tourist and acres of rose colored diamond fields helps too 🙂 The Australians may have learned some very sensible economic principles from their Asian neighbors rather than their currently less successful Euro/Anglo ancestors.

 

[dmr]

On the subject of the nanny state -- why not light another fuse? -- there is the stance of the religious right wing on abortion.

What I think is hypocritical is that the same people who are crying out for "less government" and such are the same ones who are equally vocal in striving for more government control in regards to reproductive choice.

Enough said on that one. I'll shut up!

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Are we having fun yet?

 

[David Murphy]

I'm ready to bail on this thread. Back to something really controversial like FSU cameras vs. Leica.