Erik van Straten
Veteran
This is the easier set up.
On the right, between the roller and the aluminium housing, you will see some rings around the axle (also on the left). These are very important. Make a note how many there are and do not loose them when you take the complete roller out of the housing.
Erik.
On the right, between the roller and the aluminium housing, you will see some rings around the axle (also on the left). These are very important. Make a note how many there are and do not loose them when you take the complete roller out of the housing.
Erik.
Dralowid
Michael
Ah yes, and there is small bush or bearing on the right hand side too.
The tensioner, although black, looks standard so my previous comments apply...I hope!
Michael
PS...we have got into the habit of saying right or left as seen from the back of the camera.
The tensioner, although black, looks standard so my previous comments apply...I hope!
Michael
PS...we have got into the habit of saying right or left as seen from the back of the camera.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Someone suggested the curtain strap material from Micro-tools.
Measurements are slightly off though. 3.17mm wide and 0.25mm thick.
http://www.micro-tools.com/product.htm?pid=147157&cat=14013
Measurements are slightly off though. 3.17mm wide and 0.25mm thick.
http://www.micro-tools.com/product.htm?pid=147157&cat=14013
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Milo is sending me some different strap materials to play with.
He dids say it's best not to mess with the clutches at all.
He dids say it's best not to mess with the clutches at all.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
It is a good idea to try these.
Of course it's best not to mess with the clutches at all. However, when the shutter does not open during it's run, you have to try something.
I've been thinking to try to double the Aki Asahi ribbon instead of pressing in the clutches, but I did not have the time for it to try. The Aki Asahi ribbon is very thin and smooth.
Good luck, Rick, keep us informed.
Erik.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Brett also suggested (via Facebook) shimming the clutches instead of crimping them, by folding thin sheet metal or other material around them.
I actually thought about doubling up the Aki-Asahi ribbons as well, but would prefer the two ribbons to be joined somehow, to prevent length-wise rubbing when the shutter is operated. I fear glue or cement would make it lose too much of it's flexibility, while stitching it together might thicken it too much.
Soo many things to ponder.....
What would be the biggest issues using two different types/thickness of strap material? Curtains running crooked?
Difference in thickness means the drums to roll up more or less material per turn...or will the fact that they run independantly from each other balance that out?
I don't really want to take the intact ribbon off yet, but if that will cause an issue, I think I'll just use the intact ribbon as a template for the replacement as suggested earlier. And then replace the intact ribbon with new one of the same material as the first.
I actually thought about doubling up the Aki-Asahi ribbons as well, but would prefer the two ribbons to be joined somehow, to prevent length-wise rubbing when the shutter is operated. I fear glue or cement would make it lose too much of it's flexibility, while stitching it together might thicken it too much.
Soo many things to ponder.....
What would be the biggest issues using two different types/thickness of strap material? Curtains running crooked?
Difference in thickness means the drums to roll up more or less material per turn...or will the fact that they run independantly from each other balance that out?
I don't really want to take the intact ribbon off yet, but if that will cause an issue, I think I'll just use the intact ribbon as a template for the replacement as suggested earlier. And then replace the intact ribbon with new one of the same material as the first.
Dralowid
Michael
Chances are the intact ribbon will break when you remove the roller. Bearing its mind its age (looks like the original colour in your pictures) I would not advise only replacing one.
Get an accurate measurement of the intact ribbon as soon as poss. Mine was 100mm.
Wow, I am sounding negative...not intended!
Michael
Get an accurate measurement of the intact ribbon as soon as poss. Mine was 100mm.
Wow, I am sounding negative...not intended!
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I think so too that you'll have to replace the ribbon that is still intact. Sooner or later it will break.
Erik.
Erik.
Yes I admit I haven't tried it, and it would be fiddly, but I think with the appropriate sheets of brass shim stock it ought to be possible to slide the appropriate thickness and width of shim under the top of the clutch, and then, using small pliers, tweezers and cutters as appropriate, carefully fold the shim around the "buckle" of the clutch before pressing it flat against the top of the buckle. You'd have to cut the ends to length so they're flush and just so. It might even be beneficial to measure and then scribe the shim at either fold to encourage it to make a tight, clean corner so that it can't rub unduly on the ribbons. Did I mention it would be a bit fiddly? 
But then many tasks on these cameras are, so...I'm sure I've done worse jobs over the years. I might even try it on the next Contax I do (probably a III at this stage) just to see if reality matches my supposition. It may not! But it seems worthy of investigation.
Cheers
Brett
But then many tasks on these cameras are, so...I'm sure I've done worse jobs over the years. I might even try it on the next Contax I do (probably a III at this stage) just to see if reality matches my supposition. It may not! But it seems worthy of investigation. Cheers
Brett
Deklari
Well-known
Do different thickness of strap change thickens the top roller? If so... it may change a distance between curtains.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I don't think that much of the ribbons are taken up by the top roller when the curtains are wound up, though. Up to a frame's height?
Grytpype
Well-known
I've been away from this thread for a few days, so I've missed some interesting discussion on what ribbon might be suitable. I thought I had better throw in my own thoughts, for what they are worth. I had a Contax II partly stripped awaiting ribbons for a couple of years, while I tried, and failed, to find suitable ribbons. I was, and still am, determined not to modify the friction clutches. In the end I tried some polyester Berisfords 'Double-sided satin'. The dimensions are spot-on, but it seemed to have too much friction. I changed to the Aki-Asahi, but without adjusting the friction, and the camera functions at all speeds, but the speeds are not good. In the very near future I'm planning to do a full shutter strip-down, clean and lube, and perhaps try experimenting with altering the tension of the 2nd curtain relative to the 1st.
That looks just the job, according to the dimensions, but judging from the picture, I don't think the weave would be suitable.
Agree about the clutches. I'm sure the factory must have set the clutches on the production-line according to whatever ribbon happened to be on the roll that day, but I'd still prefer to leave them where they are.
Was contemplating the shim idea with the Contax II. I don't think shimming the bridge part of the clutch could work. For one thing, the 'bridge' is not straight, which would make it impossible to fit the shim material closely. Also, the A-A ribbon is rather wide and fits the friction slots close to the sides, and I think the end of the shim insert would tend to cause fraying. I thought it might be possible to fit a shim behind the ribbon, between the ribbon and the 'yoke', but in the end, abandoned this idea as well.
It is rather hard to believe there is not a ribbon out there that is more suitable than the A-A. It definitely should be a 'grosgrain' weave. Contax ribbons, Kiev ribbons, and the Aki Asahi, are all grosgrain, which has a distinctive lateral ribbing. Most of the 'grosgrain' ribbon available on eBay is all of the same Chinese variety, which is too thick, and much too coarse. There is also another slightly rarer variety sold as "3mm", that looks quite suitable in weave and thickness, but unfortunately it is 3.7mm wide.
Steve.
That looks just the job, according to the dimensions, but judging from the picture, I don't think the weave would be suitable.
Agree about the clutches. I'm sure the factory must have set the clutches on the production-line according to whatever ribbon happened to be on the roll that day, but I'd still prefer to leave them where they are.
Was contemplating the shim idea with the Contax II. I don't think shimming the bridge part of the clutch could work. For one thing, the 'bridge' is not straight, which would make it impossible to fit the shim material closely. Also, the A-A ribbon is rather wide and fits the friction slots close to the sides, and I think the end of the shim insert would tend to cause fraying. I thought it might be possible to fit a shim behind the ribbon, between the ribbon and the 'yoke', but in the end, abandoned this idea as well.
It is rather hard to believe there is not a ribbon out there that is more suitable than the A-A. It definitely should be a 'grosgrain' weave. Contax ribbons, Kiev ribbons, and the Aki Asahi, are all grosgrain, which has a distinctive lateral ribbing. Most of the 'grosgrain' ribbon available on eBay is all of the same Chinese variety, which is too thick, and much too coarse. There is also another slightly rarer variety sold as "3mm", that looks quite suitable in weave and thickness, but unfortunately it is 3.7mm wide.
Steve.
Deklari
Well-known
I maybe completely off ... But still not get it , why is the problem to adjusting the friction for A-A ribbons? I have done this 3 times already, my two Contax III work fine and accurate after this. Only Contax I give me some issues with slow speed, but it maybe do to different thing.
Grytpype
Well-known
No problem. I just don't want to adjust the camera for a ribbon that is not ideal. I still haven't given up hope that I might find something better!
Highway 61
Revisited
I'm with Deklari here, the AA ribbons work super in the Contax II shutter with a minimum amount of bending torque applied on the friction clutches. They also fit the Kiev shutter with no problem if you bend the clutches a bit more. And they are the best material out there, they are 3mm wide exactly and are made of genuine silk. They have passed the famous Zorkikat's shutter actuations high number exam. So, why bother with using something else ?
Deklari
Well-known
I see. But it will be difficult to find exact same as original.
Plus I maybe wrong, but I don't think Zeiss Ikon that ideal and make this ribbons mechanism completely un-flexible. As Erik said earlier the ribbons could be a little longer ( 0.5cm). Also tension could be +/- some number. But it work fine at the end. It is my thinking. However, I will interesting if you find a good alternative for A-A.
Highway 61
Revisited
Depending on your age, and even if you are still young enough, you may pass away before you find something better than the Aki Asahi 3mm silk ribbon. Frankly : use the AA ribbon, adjust your clutches and enjoy your prewar camera now, my friend.
Grytpype
Well-known
They are the best we know about. Maybe the A-A ribbon varies a bit, because mine is definitely a bit on the wide side - about 3.3mm. You need a flexible glue to "seal" the cut ends (I used G.S. Hypo Fabric Cement) or it becomes impossible to get through the slots in the 2nd curtain.
Sadly, you are very probably correct!
oftheherd
Veteran
They have several different widths, but don't mention thicknesses.
http://www.micro-tools.com/searchm.htm?type=merged&searcht=shutter+curtain+tape&x=0&y=0
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Hurrah, the ribbon samples arrived in the mail today.
Let's see if I can fix this thing
Let's see if I can fix this thing