Crazy to buy a $700 DS M3?

[markbrennan]

Hey All -

I've been using a new MP for a good year and a half. Now it appears to need some service - no problem, as it's under Passport. But I dread not having the camera for a good 4-6 weeks (my estimate of how long Leica in NJ will take).

I've been contemplating a 2nd M body for a while, but realistically don't think I should spend the money; I do in fact have a Canon P as well, but much prefer the M.

I'm also considering going meterless (yeah, I know, just take the battery out of the MP!), so find I'm lately partial to the earlier Ms.

I only shoot 50mm, but may one day go for a 35. But I also have really gotten used to the .72 finder on my MP - I like the space around the frame. So despite the M3's fame for use w/ a 50, I assumed I wouldn't be interested.

Just found a DS M3 (817575) which is listed as EX++/Mint for $699 - seems quite low to me, so it might be a good deal.

What are your thoughts about double stroke M3s? Will I miss the single stroke advance? What about the whole change "back in time" from the MP to the M3? Silly and quixotic?

I'm not really looking for justification for a GAS attack, but would love to hear feedback on those who use this camera (especially double stroke, or early, models), or have used BOTH the MP and M3.

thanks!

Regards,
-Mark

 

[Meleica]

$ 700 is a fair price if in good working order.....if really close to mint, its a good price.

My Leica M body price guide is here:

http://antiquecameras.net/leicamcameras.html

I've used the M7 and M3 and the M3 is a true classic - no other way to say it.... in good condition, an M3 is great for the 50mm focal length.

Dan

 

[LazyHammock]

I have an MP that is rarely used since I got a SS M3. You may find you are not in a hurry to get your MP back once you go the M3 route, it has a wonderful viewfinder. I may be a little biased being a 50mm user almost exclusively (28mm with a soon to arrive viewfinder). The M3 is far and away my favorite Leica. I rarely single stroke the advance, usually 2 or many more.
If anyone is interested I think I'll have the MP up in classifieds before too long.
Cheers,
Nick

 

[vrgard]

Regarding price, condition is the real question. If it's very clean then it's worth $700. You can't make a beat up M3 ever look as good as a clean M3 even if you get it for a song and have it CLA'd to operate like new. On the other hand, if all you care about it how well it works then wait for a beater and have it CLA'd. My preference, and maybe this just makes me vain, is for a clean camera. I love the design and enjoy looking at it and wouldn't be as happy with one that was too beat up.

As for double stroke, I've never understood what the big deal is. I have one and it's never slowed me down or been a bother in the least.

-Randy

 

[davidzapr]

I thought I would chime in here. Mark, I just got a call from Leica NJ about my MP that got there on July 3rd....they wanted permission to take the leather off the camera so they could 'look' into the problem with it! It has been over 2 months that they have had it and only now are they getting to it. As to the M3 DS question: I found one that was described as a 'EX' condition on the 'bay, and asked the seller about it. It had been CLA'ed just 10 months before at a shop in Los Angeles that the LHSA had on their preferred list, and I verified that. When I got it, it was near perfect...even the Vulcanite was intact. I paid $699 and consider it a bargain, and I use it everyday. IMHO the DS model is smoother to advance the film than my other m's(I have 7). Go for it!!

David

 

[waileong]

The price of the M3 is not the key issue. What's important is whether you'll be happy stroking the lever twice for every shot. To me, it gets irritating, and gets in the way when you want to shoot fast.

 

[markbrennan]

Thanks for all the great replies everyone! Frankly I'm not up on my M prices - I know they vary. KEH lists their "EX" M3s from 789 - 919; of course, it's impossible to gauge the rating system of different dealers.

Dan - thanks for your pice guy - very useful, and again, for me, the M2 and M3 prices you list are somewhat surprising, since they seem lower than what I've seen around.

Nick - interesting to hear that you seem to prefer the M3 over your MP! Of course, what you've got me thinking is that I can re-sell my MP and buy TWO M3s! I do shoot exclusivlye 50mm, but again, may eventually use a 35, since I find that focal length a bit more fluid, even lyrical. but the 50 is training my eye. Nick - how do you like going meterless?

David - thanks for sharing your Leica NJ story - somewhat depressing, however! There's no doubt my MP needs adjustment, but 2+ months seems unacceptable!

Waileong - yes, I'm concerned about having to double stroke, but like Nick, double stroking sometimes happens automatically for me, so i'm thinking it won't be a big deal.

Thanks again, everyone.

Regards,
-Mark

 

[Ken Ford]

Mark, I think the one you mentioned would drive me nuts - old shutter speed progression, right?

I picked up a "bargain" grade M3DS from KEH earlier in the year for $500 and love it. I purposely looked for one in the serial number range 854,001 to 915,250 - the last of the DS models with a metal pressure plate and standard shutter speeds. I finally got around to sending it to Youxin last week, and it now practically sings and dances after his tender touch.

I really like the DS wind - it doesn't bother me in the least. Of course, I usually wind my other cameras using shorter strokes, so I'm used to it!

 

[jbf]

Just so you know... I just bought a DS M3

I paid 800 for mine.

BUT My M3 had it's viewfinder upgraded/replaced to allow for 35, 135, 50, and 90mm framelines.

The job was done by Leica USA.... so it was a good job.

The body itself is in great condition with the exception of the bottom plate... it has the usual scuff marks it would see if it was actually used. The top also has one or two small scuffs most likely from a Leia MR meter.

 

[markbrennan]

Thanks again, guys!

Ken - your reply makes me wonder at what point Leica changed over to the "new" shutter speeds in their M3s. Anyone know!
Thanks,
-Mark

 

[sienarot]

I know they vary. KEH lists their "EX" M3s from 789 - 919; of course, it's impossible to gauge the rating system of different dealers.

KEH is extremely conservative with their ratings. Their "Bargain" condition can easily be classified as "EX" with other dealers. I think their standard practice is if there's a nick or scratch, regardless of how trivial it may be, they will pretty much list it as Bargain. So if they have something in "EX" condition, you can almost count on it being as-new.

 

[John Elder]

If your favorite lens is 50mm, you will love an M3. The switch to double stroke you will get used to on the first day you use it. I have heard it said that the Leitz employees who made the cameras were of the opinion that the double stroke was the best made M3. I have heard that from several sources. By far the most important thing to look for on the M3 is the brightness of the rangefinder. Everything else is easy to fix.

 

[LazyHammock]

Mark,
Going meterless has not really slowed me down. I carry a tiny Sekonic L208. Once you are dialed in to the lighting conditions it may even be quicker than the in-camera meter.
Nick

 

[Ken Ford]

Thanks again, guys!

Ken - your reply makes me wonder at what point Leica changed over to the "new" shutter speeds in their M3s. Anyone know!
Thanks,
-Mark

Mark, I used Sartorius as a reference when looking for my M3 and it didn't let me down. Per his book, new speeds started with 854,001.

 

[Ken Ford]

BTW, this is what you can get as BGN grade from KEH...

 

[Rob-F]

I think $700 is high, unless it has had a very recent CLA. I paid $500 plus $275 to Sherry for a CLA. Mine is an under-900,000 model that ws converted to single stroke. If the DS mechanism wears out, it has to be replaced with a single-stroke one.

Hard to say if you will like the M3 unless you use it for a while. But since you think you will be adding a 35mm lens, why not get an M2 instead? You can get a decent one for $700.00 or so. That way you will have full use of both lenses on both cameras.

The M3 comes fully into its own with lenses that are long and fast. I try to use mine with the 90mm f/2 and the 75/1.4. The latter requires an external finder, since the M3 has no 75mm frame. And I'll use either it, or my M2, with the 50mm, just to get a realistic frameline size. The MP, M6, and M7 have such an undersized 50mm frameline.

My $00.02!

 

[jbf]

I love mine so far... my only grip is that after having lost my handheld meter I really wish I had a meter in my camera or another meter. 🙁

Unfortunately I cant afford a new meter right now so I'm stuck using sunny 16. While working most of the time I really wish I had a meter for more precise camera work.

Even so, its quite enjoyable.

Oh and my M3 looks about like the one shown above. Albeit the leather on mine is a bit nicer I would say.

Even so, that's a great deal. BGN from KEH might be a great way to go.

 

[Robert Kildare]

I thought adjusting to a double-stroke camera would be difficult, but it wasn't. As soon as I pick up my M3 DS, something in my brain changes and I wind the camera twice without even thinking. The feeling of the camera in my hands causes the brain shift.

I also shoot with a Minox GL, which is also DS. Same thing happens with that one.

 

[markbrennan]

Thanks again, everyone! Really learned a lot from this thread; great replies!

I think I will NOT be pursuing this particular DS M3 (the dealer hasn't even replied to an email inquiry), but have now got the bug to find another, possibly a single stroke. I am particularly intrigued by moving from an MP, with which I shoot ONLY 50mm, to an M3, and have an idea in my head that if I like an M3, I could possibly sell my MP and get TWO M3s! (That's a subject of another thread, perhaps.)

At any rate, all of your replies have been very helpful and information - really nice! Thanks, all!

regards,
-Mark

 

[mfunnell]

have now got the bug to find another, possibly a single stroke.

I know that peoples' tastes vary, but I find that I prefer the DS, and wouldn't trade mine for an SS and cash (unless it were a lot of cash!) even though market values go the other way. Mine had been CLAd before I acquired it, so is in near-perfect mechanical condition and that helps a lot, of course. (Cosmetically its OK, but with someone's name engraved on the top plate. That's fine by me as it drove the price down and this is a camera to use, not a shelf queen.)

...Mike