critique please - Cuban cockfighters, a photo story

[Bob Michaels]

You dismiss internet videos of cockfights as uninforming yet want us to accept your internet still images. Do you see the irony in that?

Oh, no. I never said internet videos were uninforming. What I did say was that knowledge from only watching videos was not a valid argument for contending someone's images did not portray reality when they had so much first hand on the ground experience including many aspects of the subject not included in videos. Of course you and everyone else has the right to believe whatever you want. Especially in the case where everyone wanted to debate how I covered ethical issues when I consciously decided to exclude such.

 

[Photog9000]

To be honest, Bob, I was left a little flat by the imagery. I did not feel that you had any opinion about the event, only that you were there to document it. I did not feel a connection that drew me in and held my interest. Part of it may be the fact that most of the images are square format which leaves me a little flat. (Tried square once with a Yashica 124G but it did not work for me.) I have always liked the 24mm x 36mm framing of 35mm film.
One thing I would suggest is maybe focusing on a single trainer/owner to whatever the end is (a victory or loss). Something to draw the viewer in to better understand the connection between man and bird. Maybe starting out at the home of the owner and grabbing some images of training followed with a trip to a contest.

 

[helen.HH]

Well a few thoughts

The pictorial flow...
seems abit too loose if You are trying to tell a Story...
I have no idea what this selection was edited from but I might change the sequence / add or subtract from the 16 photos

I do very much like your work just felt this series fell short
Best ~ Helen


•••••OOOPS stand corrected !
I looked at just the photos
then realized You had to click on each one to view text...flowed much better
though I am against Cruelty to Animals, the cruel/petty way of having to make a buck and Spectators viewing it as entertainment

 

[ptpdprinter]

Oh, no. I never said internet videos were uninforming.

You said I was uninformed because I had only seen internet videos. Imagine if the only thing I saw were your internet stills. Would I still be uninformed? If so, it doesn't say much for your or any other photo story.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Especially in the case where everyone wanted to debate how I covered ethical issues when I consciously decided to exclude such.

As a creator, you can focus on what you wish and consciously exclude what you will. But a viewer has no obligation to respect your personal framework.

I think that if the captions and possibly the photos were tighter and more focused in whatever you want us to see and think, viewers would be less prone to project their personal concerns into the event.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Helen / Rich: excellent input as you both confirmed the validity of my concern that it is not obvious to the viewer that there is supporting text and one must manually click on the first image, then to the next and continue doing so. Rich, I never told you how to see the full frame images, so you only saw the square thumbnails. This appears to be a limitation to the software, jAlbum, I am using for presentation. I must find some other software that opens with the first image including related text and clearly indicates how to move on to the next image.

 

[NY_Dan]

The photos - why the bottle of wine? Why the baseball cap? The main shot - why not change angle to remove distracting clutter? Why ask for critique - when the photo is right there for you to see? These are nice snapshots.

 

[Bob Michaels]

The photos - why the bottle of wine? Why the baseball cap? The main shot - why not change angle to remove distracting clutter? Why ask for critique - when the photo is right there for you to see? These are nice snapshots.

Great segue into a critical question. Did I not provide enough information or make the erroneous assumption that the viewer would click on an image from the thumbnail to see the full image with caption? I suspect that may be the case when you refer to a wine bottle while the caption explains that is "the bar" which consists only of shots of rum for a cheap price.

I wish I could shoot photos that told the entire story without captions but that is just a limitation of my talent.

 

[NY_Dan]

I believe the photo should explain the caption, not the other way around. Don't give up, or frame a "limitation" - take a wine bottle and a person and spend a few hours shooting them as many ways as possible - then see what resonates in you. I take a lot of snapshots, too - on purpose.

 

[CMur12]

Software may be an issue, however, I opened each image and read the captions.

I, for one, believe that text is very helpful in reportage. If you are presenting an aspect of culture that is new or not well understood by your audience, text is necessary. I am frequently frustrated by interesting images that provoke questions beyond the basic aesthetic and provide no answers.

- Murray

 

[Photog9000]

Helen / Rich: excellent input as you both confirmed the validity of my concern that it is not obvious to the viewer that there is supporting text and one must manually click on the first image, then to the next and continue doing so. Rich, I never told you how to see the full frame images, so you only saw the square thumbnails. This appears to be a limitation to the software, jAlbum, I am using for presentation. I must find some other software that opens with the first image including related text and clearly indicates how to move on to the next image.

I did go to each individual image on your webpage mainly because I wanted to see how it was presented and what you were trying to accomplish. I guess one of my concerns is I still do not get a strong feeling about the images. As I mentioned, maybe singling out a particular owner/trainer would help by developing the emotion an owner has with his bird. When I am trying to do a photo essay I usually focus on a particular thought I have about the idea. I think you have some access for these sporting events that maybe most people do not have. You have a start here but, for me, it needs further development and a more specific thought as to what you are trying to present.
I am not an expert on photo essays, you might take a look at the few I have on my website. Most were shot with a pair of Nikons with wide and telephoto zooms. The poetry reading essay was shot with an single Fuji X-E1 and 1,4/35mm lens. The planting day essay was shot with a Fuji X100s and the X-E1 with a Nikkor 1,8/85mm lens. I don't know if these essays would help in your quest but maybe they will give you some ideas. The projects section focuses on a single idea that I shot over several years in each case.
As I mentioned earlier, I think you have started a quest to develop something about this event but you need more shooting time for the idea to mature.
Hope this helps.

 

[Bob Michaels]

...... I am not an expert on photo essays, you might take a look at the few I have on my website. .....

Thanks. I found time to look through your website. Very interesting.

My website http://bobmichaels.org/ does have a number of different stories. But mine use differing presentations as I continue to experiment. Some are text stories with inserted photos, some are a series of photos with captions in a slide show format, some, like yours, have a text lead in with following photos, two are MP4s.

The recent on my website is from Cuba but with differing topics such as:
* raising a pig in your back yard for profit
* obit and funeral of a friend (very different in Cuba)
* Fidel's 90th and final birthday celebration
* May 1st Workers Day Parade (with target audience of Communist party officials)
* International film festival which is in an otherwise small fishing village
* and more. A real mix of subjects and presentation styles. But all were shot with the particular style used in mind.

 

[Photog9000]

My website http://bobmichaels.org/ does have a number of different stories.

Enjoyed a visit to your website, Bob. Especially enjoyed the b&w series that were presented. (As you may have noted from my webiste, I love b&w!)
Really enjoyed the Mississippi Delta images. I lived the first couple of decades of my life in central Mississippi including the turbulent 1960's. That was before my photographic life began. Bookmarked your website and will visit occasionally to see any new series.

 

[willie_901]

In my view, this quote from the American comedian Mark Russel applies:

"I don't make the news, I just report it."

Bob's photographs neither endorse or condemn cock fighting.

The camera saw what it saw.

Anything else is projected by the viewers' collective life experiences.

 

[ptpdprinter]

In my view, this quote from the American comedian Mark Russel applies:

"I don't make the news, I just report it."

Bob's photographs neither endorse or condemn cock fighting.

The camera saw what it saw.

Anything else is projected by the viewers' collective life experiences.

And the photographer played no part in selecting which images to take and, of them, which to show, and in selecting the tone, tenor, and content of the captions? We just had a camera walking around taking images all by itself, and captions appearing magically out of thin air. Curious. I think you are selling Bob short as having no point of view.

 

[jawarden]

In my view, this quote from the American comedian Mark Russel applies:

"I don't make the news, I just report it."

Bob's photographs neither endorse or condemn cock fighting.

The camera saw what it saw.

Anything else is projected by the viewers' collective life experiences.

In my experience that quote is almost never true.

 

[xayraa33]

I like your photo, Bob.

It has good inverted pyramidal proportions in the foreground subjects and the vivid colours are eye catching.

It would be a bit more whimsical if the guy's head in the background was not visible and the rooster's leg and foot doubled for the guy's right arm due to the parallax of the shooting angle of your camera lens.

 

[Bob Michaels]

And the photographer played no part in selecting which images to take and, of them, which to show, and in selecting the tone, tenor, and content of the captions? We just had a camera walking around taking images all by itself, and captions appearing magically out of thin air. Curious. I think you are selling Bob short as having no point of view.

ptpdprinter is totally correct. Everything was my decision about what was important. The photos and the general tone of the story was mine and mine alone. The exclusion of the much discussed ethical considerations was a subconscious decision based on my view that it was no part of the story. Not something I intentionally omitted or portrayed different than reality. Just not part of the story based on knowledge. The introduction of ethical considerations was something totally brought about by viewers and their own thoughts.

I am amazed at those who in spite of knowing nothing about Cuban cockfighting, never having been to a cock fight, never being around anyone who raised and cared for fighting cocks, actually never even been to Cuba deciding that ethical issues should be the focus or even part of the story. Then they feel comfortable critiquing how it was implied.

If someone wants to do a photo story about the ethics of Cuban cockfighting, I invite them to live in Cuba part time, begin to understand the culture, go to many cock fights, get to know Cubans who raise and care for fighting cocks. Then if you can find a story there about ethical considerations about cock fighting, do a photo story about it.

Finally, I call HYPOCRITE! to those who express uninformed views about cock fighting while smugly buying their chicken pieces in neatly shrink wrapped packages at the store without ever considering the conditions under which those chickens were raised and slaughtered in modern day chicken factories.

My thanks to each of you who offered the requested critique of the presentation of the story. Be assured I gave consideration to each of your comments.

 

[jawarden]

Finally, I call HYPOCRITE! to those who express uninformed views about cock fighting while smugly buying their chicken pieces in neatly shrink wrapped packages at the store without ever considering the conditions under which those chickens were raised and slaughtered in modern day chicken factories.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on the cockfighting issue, Bob.

In addition to cockfighting I'm also against the inhumane way chickens are treated and slaughtered as in your example above of the worst chicken factories. I know you're going to think this is totally crazy, but I reached my ethical conclusion about chicken factories without first moving my family part time to a neighborhood with a slaughterhouse. I've never been to a disgusting modern chicken slaughterhouse, ever, in fact. I've never met the workers raising chickens in cages the size of a single chicken. I've not done the physically active things you are suggesting are somehow required (?) for having an opinion about cockfighting, in other words. I guess you would say I am "uninformed" about the chicken factory issue, because I reached my conclusion about modern chicken processing by reading alone, and adjusted my behavior accordingly.

But I think I'll stick with my uninformed reading.

 

[zauhar]

Bob , this is an interesting set of images. I don’t believe in ‘critique’ here, as these shots were not posed, you worked with what you had. To do better would mean moving outside your comfort zone, or more to the point the comfort zone of your subjects.

The image of the boy on horseback with his bird is the best of the set! That is well composed and would make anyone take notice.

A number of these shots need more contrast, this is a situation where color does not help. I think several of these would be enhanced if you found an angle where man and bird were framed against the sky or a brighter background.

Randy