Cross-processing blues

[Ash]

I'm sure I'll become notorious for these kind of things, but here goes!

A big thank-you to TimeFreeze. I now have 5 huge bulk rolls of 20 years out-of-date camera film to use up!


It's mainly 'Process E6' slide duplicating film.

Of course, E6 processing is next to non-existent, so much like my attempt with a C41 film, I've begun the endeavour to work out what speed a slide-duplicating film should be used at, and how to develop.

I've managed to get one or two photo's.

My question is this: What happens in E-6 processing?

When developed with typical b&w developer (generic Jessops brand) the negs appear black, but held up to the light with a yellowy tinge I can see a negative image creeping from beneath.


My neg scanner can only JUST cope with the film but strangely, when only scanned as a positive, and then inverted in Photoshop. The pictures have a really nice blue colour 🙂


Has anyone got idea's on stripping some layers* from this film so that the scanning is easier, and the negs don't appear with that thick dark layer? Some fun has taught me bleach strips ALL the emulsion! You live and learn I guess!


Anyone dabbled in E6 or other colour developing, or have any thoughts on how I should conduct my experiments?




*sorry about my awful terminology!

{positive/negative attached. Please dont criticise the exposure and blurring etc - handheld slow shutter speed on a test film, very rushed}

 

[clarence]

Cross processing C41 or E6 film with conventional black and white developer seldom yields anything beyond mud, as far as I know.

On a slightly off-topic note, dlab7.com imposes no extra charge for cross-processing C41 and E6. Simply send your E6 film to the C41 branch, marked for cross processing, and vice versa.

Clarence

 

[ZorkiKat]

In E6 processing, these happen:

1. first development to create BW negative image.
2. reexposure or fogging bath to render the remaining undeveloped halide developable.
3. colour development to create a positive image in BW silver and colour dye.
4. bleaching to render all the formed silver in the emulsion (rehalogenisation) soluble in fixer.
5. fixer to remove the reformed silver halide, leaving only the positive colour dye image.

This description is simplified, but it explains what happens in the process. The chemistry involved is similar to the BW and colour developers but with some modifications to allow them to work precisely as the colour reversal film would require.

An E6 film developed in ordinary BW developer should yield a BW silver image. The yellow "masking" you saw in the developed strip is the yellow filter layer incorporated in the film. This filter layer is below the top (blue sensitive) layer and is present to prevent blue light from reaching and affecting the lower green and red sensitive layers. This yellow dye is usually soluble in one of the process chemicals used in colour reversal processing. But since you used a BW developer/ processing which did not affect the dye, the yellow dye layer remained.

You can 'correct' the image to yield "normal" looking BW images in Photoshop. Conversion to grey scale, then adjusting the levels and curves (brightness and contrast) accordingly is but one many of the methods which you can use.

BTW, duplicating film is designed to deal with pictures already on film. It imaging qualities aren't optimised to deal with "live" subjects. 🙂

Jay

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Put the E6 into the minilab with a 'C41' label handwritten on. It works.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Ash

I saved your attachments and edited them in Photoshop:

Using the left positive portion( refer to attachments below, numbers here correspond to the numbers in the photos.

1. The black value was established by using the dropper sampler tool in Levels by clicking on the blue margins of the image.

2. Desaturation applied to remove colour tinges.

3. After levels and curves adjustment.

Using the right negative portion:

1. The overall yellow mask was neutralised to white by using the white dropper tool in Levels. The area sampled was the yellow margin of the scan. The resulting negative image still bore some hints of yellow. These areas probably retained more of the yellow dye. This could say that ordinary BW processing can take out some of the yellow filter layer, but not much.

2.The negative image is further neutralised by desaturation. Conversion to grey scale mode could also work.

3. The negative image is converted (inverted) to positive.

4. After application of levels and curves adjusments.

 

[Ash]

Thanks ZK, your photoshop processes are pretty much identical to my own, and the E-6 process information was just what I was wondering 🙂


EDIT:

not limited to using E-6 or C41 or b&w film, has anyone tried out using citric acid/lemo-juice or any other chemicals in experimentation?

 

[ZorkiKat]

not limited to using E-6 or C41 or b&w film, has anyone tried out using citric acid/lemo-juice or any other chemicals in experimentation?

Ash

I've seen lemon juice recommended as a stop-bath substitute (but only for extreme cases!)🙂

Currently using a home-brewed paracetamol-derived developer, a Rodinal-type, for developing all my BW film. Easy to make, using chemistry easily obtained from pharmacies and supermarkets.

On the E-6 note, I once assembled a colour reversal set from non-E6 chemistries.
For the developer, I modified paper developer (D-72/Dektol) by diluting it 1+1, making it a bit more alkaline by adding some lye. The first developer in reversal processes also contains some silver solvent- this I did by adding a very small amount of thiosulphate.

I didn't have any fogging agents (as used by E6 kits to make the unexposed parts of the film developable) so I just exposed the film after the first development step to strong light (100 W lamp, really close) for a few minutes.

For colour development, I used ordinary C41 type colour developer. I got this from a friendly lab who gave small quantities of the developer they used in their processors. The chemistry used in these processors are normally avaialble only in large quantities -about 5 to 10 litres per bath. Not practical for a tinkerer or low-volume experimentor.

Developed the film for the time and temperature required for developing colour negatives. I had assumed that since E6 film developed with colour images when passed through C41, the C41 developer could also be made to produce the positive colour images when used in a colour reversal processing environment.

For the bleach/fix step, I used C41 bleach/fix. This was obtained from the friendly 1 hour lab as well. Most 1 hour labs use a chemical which does the metallic silver bleaching and halide fixing in one step (known as "BLIX") instead of separate bleach and fix baths.

The results? Not exactly the quality expected of a slide film processed in real E6.
The resulting transparency was in colour and positive, but it lacked the colour punch and brilliance of "properly" processed slides. There was a slight tinge in the hues, but otherwise the resulting transparency wasn't bad at all. It looked like a slide processed in tired or slightly stale E6 chemistry. I would suspect that it was the pH of the colour developer itself. The pH affects the qualities of the dyes- higher or lower pHs would make the transparency go slightly yellow or blue.

Jay

 

[Ash]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, i decided its better than start a new one;


http://www.silverprint.co.uk/chem20.html

Are those kits all I need to develop my own E6 ??? I've got SO much Ektachrome in bulk rolls, think its worth using that chemistry?? Do I need anything else aside from those chemicals???

Thanks