ampguy
Veteran
Used only with 2 lenses so far - Nikkor 28/2.8 (.3m focus) and first gen 43-86 zoom, so focus and exposure are all manual.
I'll write up a review in my blog when I have more time, and have gone through the manual, but here are my first impressions:
Good small body size, lighter than an M, but with lenses, much longer.
ISO noise - pretty high for a DSLR at 1600, at least at 100% crop. Worse than Fuji F30, and Pentax *ist DL, and worse than K100D Super. Better than film or most P&S's though. 800 is fine.
Histogram is hidden, have to click OK button 3 times, but get 3 color channels.
Focus with electronic rangefinder dot is twitchy with my manual focus non-ai lenses, but does work. I use it all the time. The budget pentaprism for focusing MF lenses is as bad as everyone says, worse than the Pentax DSLR pentaprism models. A Katzeye is required for MF use, unless reliance on the green dot is OK. Good rangefinders will focus faster any day.
That's about it. indoors, 28/2.8 is much better length than the 43-86, although with the crop factor, pretty much the whole range is useable, where on full frame, the distortion at extremes is noticed more, hardly noticed on the crop sensor.
D-Lighting feature is nice if you want to save a badly exposed photo quickly, and not go through the computer post process method.
So far, it's a great digital back for these old lenses, High dynamic range, completely usable to ISO 800. The Manual Exposure only is a bonus for me, wish there were a way to display histogram by default, and a way to get the focus indicator less twitchy.
Anyone who has used both the D40(x) and D60 see any benefits of the D60 with regards to above?
If I didn't have this old Nikon glass that I like a lot, I'd probably have gone back to Pentax DSLRs, but am pretty happy with the Nikon so far - got as a refurb from Newegg for $279. Appears new, but packaging was specifically refurb packaging. Only 90 day Nikon warranty.
I'll write up a review in my blog when I have more time, and have gone through the manual, but here are my first impressions:
Good small body size, lighter than an M, but with lenses, much longer.
ISO noise - pretty high for a DSLR at 1600, at least at 100% crop. Worse than Fuji F30, and Pentax *ist DL, and worse than K100D Super. Better than film or most P&S's though. 800 is fine.
Histogram is hidden, have to click OK button 3 times, but get 3 color channels.
Focus with electronic rangefinder dot is twitchy with my manual focus non-ai lenses, but does work. I use it all the time. The budget pentaprism for focusing MF lenses is as bad as everyone says, worse than the Pentax DSLR pentaprism models. A Katzeye is required for MF use, unless reliance on the green dot is OK. Good rangefinders will focus faster any day.
That's about it. indoors, 28/2.8 is much better length than the 43-86, although with the crop factor, pretty much the whole range is useable, where on full frame, the distortion at extremes is noticed more, hardly noticed on the crop sensor.
D-Lighting feature is nice if you want to save a badly exposed photo quickly, and not go through the computer post process method.
So far, it's a great digital back for these old lenses, High dynamic range, completely usable to ISO 800. The Manual Exposure only is a bonus for me, wish there were a way to display histogram by default, and a way to get the focus indicator less twitchy.
Anyone who has used both the D40(x) and D60 see any benefits of the D60 with regards to above?
If I didn't have this old Nikon glass that I like a lot, I'd probably have gone back to Pentax DSLRs, but am pretty happy with the Nikon so far - got as a refurb from Newegg for $279. Appears new, but packaging was specifically refurb packaging. Only 90 day Nikon warranty.
FA Limited
missing in action
the noise is worse than the F30 probably because the F30 makes things look like watercolour at that point
antiquark
Derek Ross
D60 has an improved focus indicator (never used it though).
The D40x focus dot is basically impossible to use on a moving subject, such as a fidgeting kid. It only lights in a very narrow range, so you see it flickering once in a while, but never staying on solid.
The noise at 1600 ISO seems OK. Here are the last few pics from my photoblog that were shot at 1600:
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=664
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=660
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=657
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=618
It's definitely not grain-free, but the noise isn't enough to ruin the pictures.
However, I have the "noise reduction" setting enabled in the camera, maybe if you turn that off the noise becomes obtrusive.
The D40x focus dot is basically impossible to use on a moving subject, such as a fidgeting kid. It only lights in a very narrow range, so you see it flickering once in a while, but never staying on solid.
The noise at 1600 ISO seems OK. Here are the last few pics from my photoblog that were shot at 1600:
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=664
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=660
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=657
http://www.antiquark.com/photos/index.php?showimage=618
It's definitely not grain-free, but the noise isn't enough to ruin the pictures.
However, I have the "noise reduction" setting enabled in the camera, maybe if you turn that off the noise becomes obtrusive.
ampguy
Veteran
Thanks
Thanks
Yes, I agree, the dot is not usable with anything moving. I've been really enjoying it today, mostly with a 28/2.8 and ISO 400. I like your photos, I think they're all usable, especially the first, but in the 2nd and 3rd ones I see quite a bit of noise/grain that I wouldn't see with a Fuji F30 or Pentax 6MP DSLR. I think the key is how much light you get, and your first shot has more light than 2nd and 3rd photos.
I do have noise reduction off, but somehow I thought that it only kicked on in long multi-second exposures. I'll check out the manual tonight. May post some photos tomorrow. Thanks!
Thanks
Yes, I agree, the dot is not usable with anything moving. I've been really enjoying it today, mostly with a 28/2.8 and ISO 400. I like your photos, I think they're all usable, especially the first, but in the 2nd and 3rd ones I see quite a bit of noise/grain that I wouldn't see with a Fuji F30 or Pentax 6MP DSLR. I think the key is how much light you get, and your first shot has more light than 2nd and 3rd photos.
I do have noise reduction off, but somehow I thought that it only kicked on in long multi-second exposures. I'll check out the manual tonight. May post some photos tomorrow. Thanks!
ampguy
Veteran
BillBingham2
Registered User
Can you get the histogram to come up when the shot you have just taken is displayed?
ampguy
Veteran
Have not found a way yet
Have not found a way yet
Takes 3 main button presses, and it can't be assigned to the user defined FUNC key, not a major problem, but basically whenever I change more than a few stops of light I usually do this sequence.
I'm sure the higher end Nikons do this.
Have not found a way yet
Takes 3 main button presses, and it can't be assigned to the user defined FUNC key, not a major problem, but basically whenever I change more than a few stops of light I usually do this sequence.
I'm sure the higher end Nikons do this.
antiquark
Derek Ross
If you press the "up" arrow a few times, you can have the histogram always appear with each shot. However it's a B&W histogram, not color.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Thanks guys. I'm sure the 200/300 will do this, but the 300 is way out of my price range and I'm thinking that D40X/60 have a better overall image quality.
Still thinking.......
B2 (;->
Still thinking.......
B2 (;->
antiquark
Derek Ross
Don't forget the D90, it's cheaper than the D300. Apparently it has a better sensor than the D300:
dxomark test
ampguy
Veteran
Thanks Bill and Antiquark, Yes, while in review mode, pressing up cycles through the various display modes, and one is a big histogram, and you can keep it in your preferred display mode and it sticks.
Also, Yes, on the noise setting, I did turn it on, and 1600 is better, read the manual, and it apparently works on 800 ISO and up, and with 8sec+ exposures when set on. Also, very cool that the histogram shows the digital post process degradation after the NR process (takes several seconds).
Great camera, once getting used to the usual feature quirks. I have 100 cat photos as a result of the testing above. Will post real soon
Also, Yes, on the noise setting, I did turn it on, and 1600 is better, read the manual, and it apparently works on 800 ISO and up, and with 8sec+ exposures when set on. Also, very cool that the histogram shows the digital post process degradation after the NR process (takes several seconds).
Great camera, once getting used to the usual feature quirks. I have 100 cat photos as a result of the testing above. Will post real soon
pvdhaar
Peter
Little known secret about the D40/40x/60.. There's a very convenient way to get at the image taking settings without wading through the menus. By pressing the info button on the back (the lowest left one) two times, the settings on the screen go into edit mode. With the direction pad you can move to any of the settings and use OK to access them. Doesn't seem to work with the info button on top (near the shutter button) though..
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
You can get an S5Pro, it's basically a D200 with a better sensor and cheaper.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I can't imagine trying to use manual focus lenses with the D40-D60. The finder is better than average but it still isn't that great... go full-on plastic and just use the kit AFS lens, or better yet get the new 35/1.8 AFS prime.
I've pretty much settled on getting a D60 with the new 35 once it's shipping. For the same money I could get an S5 or D200 but I'm looking for a compact and lightweight digital.
Keep me from Best Buy and fondling a G1....
I've pretty much settled on getting a D60 with the new 35 once it's shipping. For the same money I could get an S5 or D200 but I'm looking for a compact and lightweight digital.
Keep me from Best Buy and fondling a G1....
ampguy
Veteran
Have s5's come way down?
Have s5's come way down?
D200s were recently $599 new, but still not that interesting to me. What are S5s going for these days?
Have s5's come way down?
D200s were recently $599 new, but still not that interesting to me. What are S5s going for these days?
ampguy
Veteran
Not having any problems
Not having any problems
I am not very fast with rangefinders, and if time permits, I will check a couple of contrast spots on the subject to double, and triple check focus, so maybe this is why I can deal with the twitchy green dot. I usually get in the range by knowing the lens and my distance, and once I see the green dot come on a few times, it's just a pass or two of ~ +/- 15 deg. or moving forward or back before I get a lock.
Just curious if the D60 did this better than the D40x with all manual lenses. I know the D60 uses the exposure gauge for focusing as an electronic rangefinder, but if old non AI glass doesn't even bring up that exposure gauge, then it sounds like it might just be the green dot for focusing on both.
If I find a good deal on a 50 or 35 AFS I will check it out, but the old Nikkor glass is abundant, but yes, one fast focusing plastic lens is mandatory for shooting anything moving. Currently I can only photograph the cat while he's sleeping...
Not having any problems
I am not very fast with rangefinders, and if time permits, I will check a couple of contrast spots on the subject to double, and triple check focus, so maybe this is why I can deal with the twitchy green dot. I usually get in the range by knowing the lens and my distance, and once I see the green dot come on a few times, it's just a pass or two of ~ +/- 15 deg. or moving forward or back before I get a lock.
Just curious if the D60 did this better than the D40x with all manual lenses. I know the D60 uses the exposure gauge for focusing as an electronic rangefinder, but if old non AI glass doesn't even bring up that exposure gauge, then it sounds like it might just be the green dot for focusing on both.
If I find a good deal on a 50 or 35 AFS I will check it out, but the old Nikkor glass is abundant, but yes, one fast focusing plastic lens is mandatory for shooting anything moving. Currently I can only photograph the cat while he's sleeping...
Warren T.
Well-known
The twitchy digital focus confirmation indicator can be overcome by some practice. For example, I used my Nikon F4 for many years with manual focus lenses and an "E" (grid) screen. The "E" screen is just ground glass without the split image or microprism focusing aids, so I relied a lot on the green focus dot. So operationally, I've gotten used to quickly sizing up my subject and identifying a good place to put the AF brackets of the F4. I then very quickly work the focus ring until I get a good focus indication. After that, I leave the focus ring alone while I compose the shot. This description sounds much more cumbersome than it really is in actual practice. It can be quite fast. I use this same method when using manual focus lenses on my D100.
--Warren
--Warren
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Warren
Hi Warren
Sounds like I'm using it pretty much the same way as you.
One thing about the green dot is if I take too long to focus or compose (or think my distance may have changed since last confirmation) I have to press the shutter down part way again.
I think I will get quicker at it, but I plan on continuing to use old primes a lot.
Hi Warren
Sounds like I'm using it pretty much the same way as you.
One thing about the green dot is if I take too long to focus or compose (or think my distance may have changed since last confirmation) I have to press the shutter down part way again.
I think I will get quicker at it, but I plan on continuing to use old primes a lot.
