RObert Budding
D'oh!
Sorry, but the claim that XTOL looks plastic is really odd. Fine grained with gentle tonal gradations, yes. But plastic?
I wonder how may people could really tell the difference in a properly designed double blind test.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I could, though not from shots people post online. 90% of people who post BW film scans don't know how to properly post-process the scans to get the most out of them tonally, and many don't have their screens calibrated right. I can see the differences between developers in my own work, and I choose developers for each project based on how I want the image to look.
That said, I agree with you that Xtol does not make pictures look "Plastic", whatever the heck that means. I suspect people who say such things just have not learned to use it correctly.
venchka
Veteran
1:3 according to the old German PDF available online. Don't worry about translating from German. The numbers are the same in English. You may need to ask GOOGLE to translate "small tank". I think that is listed on Page 13.
Continuous agitation in rotating Jobo tanks.
http://wwwfr.kodak.com/AT/plugins/acrobat/de/professional/xtolEntwickler.pdf
Some of us occasionally manage to muddle through.
Wayne
RObert Budding
D'oh!
I do see differences in developers, too, but I print with an enlarger.
What I really love about XTOL is that I can shoot several different films at box speed and still capture shadow detail. Great developer. D76 is very good, too (I used it for over 5 years), but I do prefer XTOL.
taskoni
Well-known
Another vote for D-76 here. I have being used both, have made prints using both (not larger than 50x60cm tho') and to my taste and tonality on the negative I prefer the D-76. Eventually I find T-Max developer to suits me perfectly when pushing Tri-X to 1200/1600
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
xTol, because it works much better on Polypan F for me.
Frankd
Established
I tried Xtol and kind of remember liking it. However, I stopped using it because the quantities did not work for me. They sell it in 1 liter and 5 liter mixes. 1 liter is not enough when I am working on a B/W project. 5 liters?? Maybe a bit too much, but also I don't have a container large enough to mix it in! So I settled on HC110 and Rodinal.
Loving Rodinal with Tri-X.
Loving Rodinal with Tri-X.
Ansel
Well-known
They are both good in their own way. As are Microdol-X, Lc29, DDx, Rodinal, 510 Pyro, etc. etc. Why do internet forums aways turn things into an either/or decision? Lots of talk about the grey tones in film but what about the grey areas in life, where most of use live and work?
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Agreed. From that point of view, a better way to frame the discussion would be: "In what ways do you prefer XTOL? In what ways do you prefer D-76?" "When do you use each?" That could encourage an integrative discussion, rather than a dichotomous one. Still, I think the merits and limits of each have been well reviewed in this thread!
A good result of this thread, is that it has stimulated ongoing interest and experimentation. Several have written something like, "I think I'll now go get a package of ---- and try that one some more!" As for me, as soon as I use up my new gallon of D-76, I think I'll have to try some XTOL again . . .
Bill Clark
Veteran
When I buy a pair of shoes, it takes a while to "break" them in so as they feel comfortable, fit my feet, well, kind of like a good pair of leather gloves.
I've used lots of different developers, still have a bunch of them. I was on the Rodinal, then Pyro kick for a while.
Like my old pair of shoes that are comfortable to wear, I feel the same way about D-76. It's been at my side for most of my photography life. The negatives just look and feel good to me!
I've used lots of different developers, still have a bunch of them. I was on the Rodinal, then Pyro kick for a while.
Like my old pair of shoes that are comfortable to wear, I feel the same way about D-76. It's been at my side for most of my photography life. The negatives just look and feel good to me!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I've used both D-76 and XTOL quite a lot, also HC-110. I found that the task of producing negatives for scanning showed XTOL a distinct advantage over D-76 due to finer grain structure, higher acutance, flatter contrast curve, and more detail in the highlights. In essence, it produces more data to work with ... the best negative for scanning is highly detailed, has low grain, and has a relatively flat contrast curve. All the magic happens in doing the image processing.
HC-110 produces a negative quite similar to D-76. I tend to use it instead of either of the others because it comes in a liquid concentrate form which I can mix one-shot at the time I process film, which is very infrequently these days.
D-76 and Tri-X produces a sharp, contrasty, grainy negative ... the signature look of the 1960s and 1970s in 35mm B&W. It is best when you're making wet lab prints IMO. I have to punch it around a little bit to tame the contrast for scanning as I only render and print through digital means these days.
G
HC-110 produces a negative quite similar to D-76. I tend to use it instead of either of the others because it comes in a liquid concentrate form which I can mix one-shot at the time I process film, which is very infrequently these days.
D-76 and Tri-X produces a sharp, contrasty, grainy negative ... the signature look of the 1960s and 1970s in 35mm B&W. It is best when you're making wet lab prints IMO. I have to punch it around a little bit to tame the contrast for scanning as I only render and print through digital means these days.
G
Bill Clark
Veteran
Agree.
Perhaps, in my mind, I like seeing prints like they were back then.
Good assessment.
Tijmendal
Young photog
I've only got experience with D76, but have really been wanting to try XTOL for a while now. I've seen great stuff from it.
I always get the D76 one gallon bags and I just mix it up in two batches. Is there any disadvantage to that? I was planning on doing the same for XTOL. What's the shelf-life of mixed XTOL, granted they're stored oxygen-free?
I always get the D76 one gallon bags and I just mix it up in two batches. Is there any disadvantage to that? I was planning on doing the same for XTOL. What's the shelf-life of mixed XTOL, granted they're stored oxygen-free?
GarageBoy
Well-known
You're really supposed to mix the entire D76 bag up; you really can't ensure that you'll getting the correct proportions of the powder when you divide like that
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
I use Xtol because I always push my film, for that it's perfect. If I was shooting @400 D76 is nicer and less flat than Xtol, the most beautiful is Fuji Neopan 1600 (@1600) in D76
dmc
Bessa Driver
Can you believe this thread started in 2009! Talk about longevity.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
The assertion that XTOL is "flatter" than D-76 is just odd. Sensitometry says otherwise.
I suspect that this perception has to to with the fact that XTOL gives you more real film speed. As a consequence, you need to shoot ⅓ to ½ stop higher EI than with D-76 to get equivalent contrast. Similarly, the notion that D-76 is sharper is wrong. XTOL gives measurably higher acutance than D-76. All while delivering fine, sharp grain structure.
Here's an extremely useful technical summary of XTOL's properties, taken from one of Freakscene's posts to a related thread:
http://leica-users.org/v35/msg07982.html
I suspect that this perception has to to with the fact that XTOL gives you more real film speed. As a consequence, you need to shoot ⅓ to ½ stop higher EI than with D-76 to get equivalent contrast. Similarly, the notion that D-76 is sharper is wrong. XTOL gives measurably higher acutance than D-76. All while delivering fine, sharp grain structure.
Here's an extremely useful technical summary of XTOL's properties, taken from one of Freakscene's posts to a related thread:
http://leica-users.org/v35/msg07982.html
Tijmendal
Young photog
I weight the powder with a kitchen scale, so that's not a problem.
Pete B
Well-known
I think he means that the D76 pack contains different chemical powders which may separate out slightly in transport so that if you take a small sample from the D76 pack, the different constituents may be present in the wrong proportion.
Pete
teddy
Jose Morales
Same here, tried XTOL, works fantastic on Acros - super sharp and modern but I find it too clinical and I get better tonality from Rodinal. I just bought D-76 for the first time. Can't wait to develop Tri-X with it soon!