Decent Budget German TLR?

[CMur12]

I would like a nice cheap tested Ferrari or Rolls Royce too.

All TLR except Rollie are junk. Had many.

I don't agree with this, at all. I have ten TLRs at present. I have a couple of Rolleiflexes and I've had a Rolleicord. No problems with any of them, but my favorite TLRs are my Minolta Autocords and a Mamiya C330f, which in some ways I consider superior to the Rolleis.

To the OP, if you want German, I think your least expensive and most practical option would be a Rolleicord. I would expect it to cost more than your budgeted amount and it may well need a CLA.

My experience with Yashica-Mats has been good with the optics, not good with the winding/shutter cocking mechanism.

Within your budget you could probably get a Yashica D or 635, referenced above, in Post 6, by farlymac. These have film advance by knob, which stops automatically when you reach the next frame. They also have manual shutter cocking. They have a full range of shutter speeds and apertures, and they are quite robust and reliable.

Most Ds and 635s have a simpler Yashikor three-element lens, of equivalent formulation to the Zeiss Triotar referenced by xayraa33 in Post 16. These lenses are better than you might think, especially when you stop them down. With wide-open lens, the slight vignetting and softer rendering could be ideal for portraiture. Stopped down, they are sharper and well suited to landscapes. (This is also largely true of four-element Tessar-type lenses, such as the more expensive Yashinon lens.) A minority of Ds and 635s came with the more expensive four-element Yashinon lens.

These cameras, with Yashikor or Yashinon lens, take the common Bay-1 lens accessories.

Any older mechanical camera may need a CLA, which would be much less expensive for a Yashica D or 635 than for any Rollei.

My favorite cameras are TLRs. I like their simple, robust, vibrationless design, and I especially like composing in a square on the groundglass of a waist-level finder. I find that the fact that the image is reversed right to left doesn't really complicate composition and I especially like to work with a TLR on a tripod.

The TLR workflow is unique to the format and quite different to that of cameras with eye-level finders. It works for me, however, and it might for you, too. You may need to increase your budget to get a good one, however, and possibly to get it CLA'd.

- Murray

 

[markjwyatt]

I enjoy shooting my Mamiya TLRs (C330f, C220f mainly). In the 1980s/90s they were my main cameras, and I am reviving them now. I like the WLF, but often shoot with a prism finder, and this is something I like about the Mamiyas- they are a systems camera. You could probably finds a C220, C22 or C33, maybe even a C330 (I would be careful) in your price range (with an 80mm f2.8), but of course they are not German. I do not have much experience with Rolliflex, but I understand they are much lighter than Mamiya TLRs, so that could be a consideration. Of course, the Mamiyas leave open the possibility of changing lenses. I have the 55mm f4.5, 80mm f2.8, 135mm f4.5, and 180mm f4.5. None of the lenses are particularly fast, but shooting with Tri-X or faster is less of an issue than with 35mm.

 

[David Murphy]

I have a Mamiya C220, and it's certainly a fine camera, but it's not quite directly comparable to a classic TLR design. The classic TLR (and by that I mean the Rolleiflex and close copies) is more compact, lighter, and simpler to use. The classic TLR is simply more transportable and discrete in use IMO than a Mamiya. The speed and quality of the Rollei taking lenses, particularly on the 2.8 models, are also pretty hard to beat!

A significant advantage of the Mamiya's is their greater flexibility and moderate cost of course.

 

[farlymac]

My latest TLR purchase was for a Rolleicord V for $100. It looks mint, has the never ready case in excellent shape, but the shutter could use a cleaning as the speeds are all off (way off on the slower ones). I just haven't gotten around to cleaning it for any of a number of reasons, but it is part of the plan. So "cheap" Rolleis can be had if you're lucky, Forest.

My whole reason for getting a 'Cord is like on the 635 the focus and winding knobs are on the same side of the camera, so when I have a grip attached it doesn't get in the way of the camera workings.

But it's nice to have the crank on my 'Flex if you want to work fast. I won't use the grip on that camera since the winder is on the other (left) side.

I rebuilt the Version-2 635 out of parts from a Version-3, so it's kind of a hybrid due to the fact the serial number board from the v-2 was missing, and I wanted to replace the pins in the bayonet mounts with the style in the v-3 so I could use the Rollei filters. While I had it apart I cleaned the shutter, replaced the mirror, and wrote a note inside the mirror box detailing the changes in case someone opens it up for a cleaning some day.

It's worth the money for whatever model of Rollei Cord or Flex you get, and to get it properly CLA'd, Forest. And unless you can physically hold and test out a camera, you'll never be able to trust anyone when they say it has just been done unless they can produce the receipt. There are many sources for TLRs, and maybe some of the repair places have one for sale. Look at estate sales, go to auctions, check out the thrift/charity shops. Things turn up in the oddest places some times, and you need to be ready to pounce when the opportunity presents itself. But don't lock yourself into the idea of getting one for $100-150, because it might be a long time coming. I was sixty-five when I found mine.

PF

 

[aizan]

I might regret this later, but there's a very nice looking MPP Microcord for sale on you know where for £175. If someone nabs it before I get around to it, at least it was someone from here.

 

[Forest_rain]

I might regret this later, but there's a very nice looking MPP Microcord for sale on you know where for £175. If someone nabs it before I get around to it, at least it was someone from here.

That's about $225 USD, too rich for my blood. Made in England though! At least I can keep an eye out in the future. I'm going to wait until the next stimulus check before spending over $200.

 

[tunalegs]

I have a Sears Tower TLR that's a rebadged Bolta, and though basic it has a very good ISCO lens. For some reason the Sears version usually sells for something like half the price of the Bolta badged version, despite being the same camera. It is essentially like having a sturdier, more refined Ricohflex. Gear focusing, but better shutter, better lens, and cast rather than stamped body.

I've had a few Richter/KWT/Welta Reflekta TLRs too. These are a big mixed bag. Usually found with a rather crummy Blitz shutter and even crummier Meritar lens. But every now and then you'll spot one with decent shutter (various makes) and a Carl Zeiss lens (I also have one with a ROW Pololyt lens, which is a good performer too). Not a bad camera if you luck into one with the better lens/shutter combo. Expect the mirror to be oxidized and in need of replacement (simple DIY job, there's a guy on eBay who sells replacement Rollei mirrors, he can custom make you one for a Reflekta for around $10-$12).

Rolleicords... sturdy cameras, and if you're willing to put up with an old one, can be had for pretty cheap. I got a 1930's example for under $50. Needed a new mirror, and it's rather more complicated to replace than on the Reflekta - but doable if you know what to do. If you're willing to spend $100+ you should be able to find one that's ready for use.

Eho Altissa: I have one more as a curiosity that for using. It's a pretty cool camera, but not exactly ergonomic or intuitive to use. Mine is prewar vintage and still works perfectly though. Somewhere between Reflekta and Rolleicord in quality. I have seen them go for truly insane amounts of money, and I've also seen them go for next to nothing. There are infinite variations in lenses, shutters, film advance, etc. so the collectors must know which is worth what better than I do.

 

[retinax]

Cheaper Microcord here: https://www.mwclassic.com/product/m...ss-77-5mm-f3-5-expres-lens-front-cap-er-case/
Rolleicords and Ikoflexes sometimes go quite cheap on ebay, just wait for auctions.

With the simpler and cheaper models without auto shutter cocking you have better chances to get one that won't need a CLA, or just for the shutter itself.

 

[leicapixie]

Ages ago when I was a pro, doing Fashion, Advertising and Portraiture, the Mamiya C-series was the cat's meow!
I started with Rolleis (borrowed) but soon graduated to Mamiya.
Interchangeability of lenses, prism, porro-prism (avoid), parramender.
One big point not ever mentioned, the Mamiya-C series can be loaded on a tripod. Left there between shoots. Covered with an old sweater..
Film runs in a straight line..making for sharper results.
Mamiya-C series are all Heavy, big but so nice to WORK with.
When I sold my studio, i kept a Rollei...light, easy to carry but i miss lenses..
I traded Mamiyas for a Pentax 6x7, some lenses..also straight film run!
Film being held flat is important!
Oh! Consider the Pentax, big, but use it like a 35mm SLR...
Prices less than Rollei.😀

 

[JPD]

The only TLR's I have are Rolleis. The Welta Reflekta have sheet metal bodies instead of cast ones like the Rolleis, but they should be able to take good photos. They can be found with different lenses, but I would recommend the Meyer Trioplan. It's one of the better triplets and has become popular in recent years.

 

[tunalegs]

Some shots from the Bolta/Tower.
SAAB by Berang Berang, on Flickr


Volkswagen Oval Window by Berang Berang, on Flickr

 

[David Murphy]

Pretty awesome results. Which exact models of Tower or Bolta is this?

Some shots from the Bolta/Tower.
SAAB by Berang Berang, on Flickr


Volkswagen Oval Window by Berang Berang, on Flickr

 

[Phil_F_NM]

You can get a Yashica D for pretty cheap. Working, under $100. For either the same price or just a little more, you can get a Yashica 635, which is a D with a built in system to adapt 35mm cassettes.
There is no such thing as a budget German TLR, unless you get lucky in finding one, then it will need a CLA.
Phil Forrest

 

[Hari]

Just bought a Rolleicord IIc on eBay for $120 w/postage,
it's been cleaned and the first roll is great! It's not going
to win the beauty contest on appearance, however. Be
patient!

 

[JPD]

Just bought a Rolleicord IIc on eBay for $120 w/postage,
it's been cleaned and the first roll is great! It's not going
to win the beauty contest on appearance, however. Be
patient!

Post a picture of the camera for correct identification. There is no "IIc". The 'c' is just a letter some collector used as his own method of identification, and not a model name given by Franke & Heidecke. The only Rolleicords with letters are the Ia, Va and Vb.


Sometimes cameras in not so good cosmetic condition are better, because you don't have to feel that you must use cotton gloves to use them. If they were that old and in mint condition you'd want to use both cotton gloves and a facemask. 😀

 

[Deleted member 65559]

You can get a Yashica D for pretty cheap. Working, under $100. For either the same price or just a little more, you can get a Yashica 635, which is a D with a built in system to adapt 35mm cassettes.
There is no such thing as a budget German TLR, unless you get lucky in finding one, then it will need a CLA.
Phil Forrest

You're right Phil.... & return shipping not including the CLA can exceed the camera budget 😉

 

[Graybeard]

Just adding to the earlier comments by others.

Look for a Rolleicord or (with luck) a Rolleiflex Automat with one of the f3.5 lenses. Put a little cash aside for a shutter cleaning; you will need it sooner or later. I carried a Rolleicord III (Xenar) with me all over Europe and have many (outdoor) shots that have made pleasing 11x14's and larger.

Avoid the Yashicas - they were built to a (discount) price point and build quality is variable/poor. I am aware that some users are happy with them today; such people are fortunate and probably should play lotteries whenever possible. In the mid 1960's I had a new Yashica TLR some apart in my hands while I was on a shoot (had to resort to the Leica IIIc that I had in my bag -barely had enough 35mm film to finish the work).

The Minolta Autocord is a tempting rival, but the weak, prone to break, focus level is scary.

 

[Forest_rain]

Avoid Yashicas? Really? I've heard they are quite good, they seem pretty popular...

I doubt I'll be able to afford any rollei TLRs. Maybe a Rolleicord if I find a miracle price on it, but unlikely.

Likely I'll go for a Yashica, I've come to realize that Rolleis are just out priced for me.

 

[aizan]

There's a decent looking Rolleicord with rim-set Compur for $133 on the auction site. I think it'd need a CLA to be in tip top working order, but it probably works alright as is. A good cleaning and some polishing compound and shoe polish would spruce it up.

Too bad about the MPP Microcord. Someone got it a few days ago.

There's a clean Graflex 22 for $110.50 BIN, and a very nice Flexaret kit for $149 BIN ($40 shipping).

 

[Forest_rain]

There's a decent looking Rolleicord with rim-set Compur for $133 on the auction site. I think it'd need a CLA to be in tip top working order, but it probably works alright as is. A good cleaning and some polishing compound and shoe polish would spruce it up.

Too bad about the MPP Microcord. Someone got it a few days ago.

There's a clean Graflex 22 for $110.50 BIN, and a very nice Flexaret kit for $149 BIN ($40 shipping).

Rolleicord looks interesting, but the lenses look in rough shape. It also looks pretty old. I'm not confident in my ability to CLA an older TLR.

Graflex 22 looks interesting but only 1/200th max shutter speed.

I saw I Ricoh Diacord L go for $100 a few days ago. It went fast, bummed I didn't pick it up. Probably a decent mode, but I was holding out for a Yashinon lens.