Deciding on rangefinder body + lens

[Rangeman133]

My budget is $2000.

Was planning to get the best possible 50mm lens, and a relatively inexpensive body.

Currently, I am siding with the bessa r3a, and zeiss 50mm f/2 planar t* zm

^that combination comes to $1300 (new lens+used body)

I don't mind saving $700 😉

Is it worth spending an extra $500 to get a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder, over the r3a, assuming I'd be getting the 50mm f/2 planar?

The other option is to stick with the r3a, and go with the Zeiss 50mm 1.5

I really don't mind spending an extra $700, but I just want it to be justified with an increase in quality over the combination i'd get with the r3a + 50mm f/2

any opinions/thoughts/comments?

thx

 

[jamesdfloyd]

Good question. I been wonder a similar thing. There are proponents of both camera bodies - I have to admit that I like the Ikon. However, I am going to make the R3M choice myself - I like the view finder.

J.D.

 

[Jason Sprenger]

I don't own a Bessa R3a, but I do own an R2a, and an R.

I don't own a the ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar but I own the ZM 50/2 Planar, a CV 50/1.5 Nokton, a collapsible Summicron, and some other 50's.

Given your choices, I recommend the ZI and the ZM 50/2 Planar. I choose the ZI because I often use 35's and wear eyeglasses, thus I am grateful for the ZI's finder.

The R3a's 1:1 and better meter read-out, however, make it an attractive alternative, depending on what is important to you.

I also use big lenses, namely the CV 35/1.2 Nokton and Summicron 90/2 pre-Aspherical, and find the ZI able to use these lenses without impinging on the viewfinder overly much.

The Planar performs without compromise, stopped down to wide open. Carrying one lens for whatever I may encounter, I generally select a sharp one.

 

[thomasw_]

OP, it is generally admitted that there is no better RF on which to use a 50mm lens than the Leica M3. Just be sure the VF is bright and the patch is contrasty. With the M3's EBL your focus accuracy is superb, second to none. As long as you are happy to hand meter, and you don't say you are not or that you are, the M3 can be obtained for less than that Bessa R3. A great all-round 50mm is the Summicron 50/2 rigid or DR. You could get the M3 and rigid summicron for waaaaay less than 2000 -- I bet for ~ 1100 USD; it would be a great combination. Not to mention the build quality differences....

 

[BillBingham2]

If you want one of the best 50s ever made pick up a Nikkor 50/1.4 Millennium and a matching S3-2000 or a good S2 body. I had mine on a S3-2000 and LOVED IT.

I know, it's a strange twist but do some digging in the Nikon RF forum here and you will might just see what I mean.

Not only is the 50/1.4 one of the top three 50s ever made (many say it's actually the best) the Nikon RF is one of the few cameras that you can focus, fire and wide with your right hand. While I was good at it with my M6 and 35 'Cron, it was never as good as I could do with my Nikon.

Cost will be around or actually below the $2K you have budget. The reissued S3 is a wonderful camera that handles like a dream. If a black body is what you seek they release a few of them in 2001.

Take a look a the tests and what people say. You will find that people spend $700 or so for an adapter that allows them to use this lens on the Leicas.

B2 (;->

 

[BillBingham2]

Forgot to mention that the S2 and S3 are 1:1. Very cool for shooting with two eyes open, very fun.

B2 (;->

 

[Rangeman133]

Good question. I been wonder a similar thing. There are proponents of both camera bodies - I have to admit that I like the Ikon. However, I am going to make the R3M choice myself - I like the view finder.

J.D.

I also have to admit, I also like the Zeiss Ikon. Having said that, I've never seen any of these rangefinders in person. My opinions are only based on specs and reviews I've read online 😱

I've read that the ZI is more solid in construction, and in terms of everything else its even compared to the M7!

I really don't want to budge from my budget, and I'd much rather get a top quality lens over a better camera body. Which is why I'm considering the bessa r3a.

I don't own a Bessa R3a, but I do own an R2a, and an R.

I don't own a the ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar but I own the ZM 50/2 Planar, a CV 50/1.5 Nokton, a collapsible Summicron, and some other 50's.

Given your choices, I recommend the ZI and the ZM 50/2 Planar. I choose the ZI because I often use 35's and wear eyeglasses, thus I am grateful for the ZI's finder.

The R3a's 1:1 and better meter read-out, however, make it an attractive alternative, depending on what is important to you.

I also use big lenses, namely the CV 35/1.2 Nokton and Summicron 90/2 pre-Aspherical, and find the ZI able to use these lenses without impinging on the viewfinder overly much.

The Planar performs without compromise, stopped down to wide open. Carrying one lens for whatever I may encounter, I generally select a sharp one.

Thanks for your input! I've read some fantastic reviews on the 50mm f/2, and seen some amazing images shot with it. I remember seeing a photo taken with a zeiss lens in a photography magazine. It was the 50mm 1.4 ZF for Nikon. I was instantly blown away with the 'look'. Dreamy colors, sharp, and it has this effect which I can't put into words! Very unique compared to other lenses imo.

Another lens in my budget that I consider, is the leica 50mm f/2.5. Based on what I've read, I suppose its better than the Zeiss, but Zeiss's faster max aperture appeals more.

OP, it is generally admitted that there is no better RF on which to use a 50mm lens than the Leica M3. Just be sure the VF is bright and the patch is contrasty. With the M3's EBL your focus accuracy is superb, second to none. As long as you are happy to hand meter, and you don't say you are not or that you are, the M3 can be obtained for less than that Bessa R3. A great all-round 50mm is the Summicron 50/2 rigid or DR. You could get the M3 and rigid summicron for waaaaay less than 2000 -- I bet for ~ 1100 USD; it would be a great combination. Not to mention the build quality differences....

I did flirt with the idea of an M3! But the thought of carrying a light meter around seemed daunting. Ultimately, I decided to go with a camera body with an in built meter.

But thanks for the suggestion of the Summicron 50mm f/2. I'll do some research on that lens, and try to look for photos. Its going at a price that will fit nicely into my budget.

If you want one of the best 50s ever made pick up a Nikkor 50/1.4 Millennium and a matching S3-2000 or a good S2 body. I had mine on a S3-2000 and LOVED IT.

I know, it's a strange twist but do some digging in the Nikon RF forum here and you will might just see what I mean.

Not only is the 50/1.4 one of the top three 50s ever made (many say it's actually the best) the Nikon RF is one of the few cameras that you can focus, fire and wide with your right hand. While I was good at it with my M6 and 35 'Cron, it was never as good as I could do with my Nikon.

Cost will be around or actually below the $2K you have budget. The reissued S3 is a wonderful camera that handles like a dream. If a black body is what you seek they release a few of them in 2001.

Take a look a the tests and what people say. You will find that people spend $700 or so for an adapter that allows them to use this lens on the Leicas.

B2 (;->

This definitely is a twist! I do remember looking at some nikon rangefinders, but the prices on ebay were ridiculous (maybe they were collectable editions). But thanks for bringing up this alternative solution. Will look into it more over the weekend.

 

[jsrockit]

Honestly, I'd go Leica M6 and a 50mm Summicron (or the Zeiss you chose). While the Voigtlander and Zeiss bodies are very nice, the Leica stuff just feels better in your hand and that shutter click is magical.

The good thing is that in your price range, you cannot go wrong by choosing almost anything from Leica, CV, or Zeiss.

 

[Spyro]

LOL Its such a personal choice! I reckon you can ask 10 photogs and get 10 different opinions... but I can guarantee you one thing, the moment you get whichever RF after a couple of weeks you're gonna start wondering what if you bought the other one, and start itching to try something else 😀
Part of the fun...

For what its worth personally I have/had an M6, a ZI and a couple of bessas and loved them all. The M6 had the nicest/quietest sound, but something didnt agree with the weird way I hold a camera and in the end I got RSI. Could be unrelated I dont know but the M6 just never really worked for me. The Ikon was the only camera I sold and bought back, the best VF/RF I've ever seen in a 35mm camera! But, other than that, it is basically a bessa IMHO LOL
The bessas are great, the best thing about them is that they offer so many options that you will get exactly what you want in terms of magnifications, framelines, AE or M etc. Super.

But in the end, the camera that suited my style the most and consistently gives me the best results is a Hexar AF LOL
Go figure 😛

So, try before you buy!!

Oh and the 50/1.5 and 50/2 are completely different beasts, ideally you'd want to have both...

 

[mfogiel]

If you are dedicated to 50mm lens only, then there are 3 good choices for the body:
Leica M3
Bessa R4A
M6/M7 0.85x

The Bessa's advantage is the AE, apart from that it has some quality issues, the tilt when it hangs on the strap is very annoying, and the EBL is short, so50/ f2.0 should be close to the limit of what it does. Plus, if you wear glasses, it is quite dificult to see the entire 50mm frame.
ZI is a much superior camera in every way, but the 50mm frame is relatively smaller.

As to the lens, if you like shooting colour, the Planar is great, however for B&W primarily, the old Summicrons, as indicated by Thomasw are incredible.

 

[thegman]

As a ZI owner, I think you were right first time with the R3A and Zeiss lens. The bodies will all take the same picture be it a Leica, Zeiss or Bessa, it's the lens which matters.

I think it's a good idea to get a body you won't baby too much (I'm guilty of that), and the Bessa price leaves room for a second body if you decide you want one, either for backup or different frame lines.

ZI is lovely, but I'm one of those silly people who put the body before the lens.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

For 2k with careful looking you can pick up an M6 Classic & a 50mm Summicron and never look back.

 

[BillBingham2]

This definitely is a twist! I do remember looking at some nikon rangefinders, but the prices on ebay were ridiculous (maybe they were collectable editions). But thanks for bringing up this alternative solution. Will look into it more over the weekend.

Take a look here>

http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

for some great background. "Minty" examples do fly for a high price, but good clean cameras are within your range. The recession has to help someone, might as well be you.

As you love 50mm the S2 is a great user camera. I moved from an S2 to a S3-3000 so I would have an exact match to my F handling (camera handing is a big thing to me, I use Nikon SLRs for long glass). The only big difference was the S3 has a non-rotating shutter speed dial.

If you are interested in purchasing one I have a contact over in Japan who I purchased my S3 system from and I can pass it along via PM or email (off forum). I have sent many people to him and they all like me have been very impressed with his honesty and professionalism.

Another place to look is CameraQuest.com. From time to time he has some great stuff come though, though not his main line of business. Stephen is the most honest and straight shooting sales person I've ever met. He has a few folks he works with out there that do very good camera repair. In fact I sent my S2 to him directly from EvilBay to have it CLAed. Not sure if it really needed it or not but I figured do it once in it's life time. Nikon RFs do not need CLAs the way Leicas do. Different design of the shutter and lubes used.

Almost forgot to mention, other than being a customer and friend of the folks I recommend I am not working for, spiffed or paid by anyone or any company I recommend. I've just had very good service and feel confident that you will too.

Good luck. I think you will enjoy RFs be they ZI, CV, Leica or Nikon, but beware, they are addicting!

B2 (;->

 

[chrishayton]

My personal opinion after playing with or owning pretty much all the M mount cameras. Go for a Leica M2 (in as good mechanical condition as possible) and a 50mm Rigid (or DR) 'cron

The ZI is a fantastic camera but to me its no where near as satisfying to use.

I guess you could get an m2 and a summicron for 1100-1200USD then spend the rest on a trip somewhere interesting to get used to it and make pictures.

 

[chrishayton]

Regarding Nikon RFs. They are beautiful in use and mechanics. You can pick up an S2 and a 50mm F1.4 in the UK for £500 so prices are even as his as an m2/m3.

 

[richardhkirkando]

The ZI does have a much wider base than the Bessa line, so it would be easier to focus if you want to get faster and/or longer lenses in the future. Something to consider, at least - it's a big deal for me, which is probably why I still use an old Contax.

 

[markwatts]

KEH are sitting on a S3 re-issue set for USD 1950. You could do a lot worse.

 

[januaryman]

If it's a Bessa R3A, then it calls for the 40mm Nokton. That should run about a grand.

But my favorite shooter is my Leica M2. That and a Canon 35/2.0 and M adapter should still be below your cost limit to allow a nice 50, (I like Canon LTM lenses, in case you haven't guessed) like the 50/1.8 plus another adapter. Or, forgo the 35 (even though you shouldn't), and spring for a clean Canon 50/1.5 if you can find one.

 

[Rangeman133]

^I really do appreciate all the input and advice. Sorry not to reply to you all, but I'm going to print out this thread, and use it to research some more.

I know a camera collector in town, who likes to display some of his stuff at his shop window. I'll see if I can hold some of these cameras (assuming he has them).

Like someone pointed out, the best camera/lens is always the one you don't own! And as an olympus xa owner myself, I know how addicting these cameras can get!

thanks again! been very helpful, and opened my eyes to yet more possibilities.

As of right now, the M6/50mm Summicron seems like a Juicy proposition! And so does the Nikon Rangefinder. But so does that Zeiss lens that I constantly drool over! I think my head is about to explode, lol 😱

 

[Guaranteed]

I'm new to the RF experience and no way near as knowledgeable as members are here.

That said I love my R3A and the fact that the 50 framelines take up the bulk of the VF(lol, I'm always having to remind myself I'm not looking TTL coming from Dslrs'). And I really do dig shooting with both eyes open.