Tuna
Fotoğrafçı
I've been shooting with a IIIc/50mm Elmar for a few years and it's time to make my life easier. I want to upgrade to a new Leica body and lens but currently can't afford both and my patience is running thin. So, until I can afford both, I am going to buy one or the other and match it with a non-Leica brand.
I have decided that I will get the latest model. Yes, I have looked at the merits of buying an older but more recent body (M6Classic or M6TTL) and/or a used Leica lens but simply have decided on the latest MP and the Summicron 35mm/f2.
Which would be the better choice:
MP with the Voigtlander 35mm 1.7 (approx. $3500 new) OR Voigtlander R2A and Summicron (approx. $2500 new) - keeping in mind that eventually I will buy the un-bought Leica lens or body in a few years...
I thank the esteemed members of this forum in advance for your responses.
Tuna
I have decided that I will get the latest model. Yes, I have looked at the merits of buying an older but more recent body (M6Classic or M6TTL) and/or a used Leica lens but simply have decided on the latest MP and the Summicron 35mm/f2.
Which would be the better choice:
MP with the Voigtlander 35mm 1.7 (approx. $3500 new) OR Voigtlander R2A and Summicron (approx. $2500 new) - keeping in mind that eventually I will buy the un-bought Leica lens or body in a few years...
I thank the esteemed members of this forum in advance for your responses.
Tuna
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Matthew
Established
I would go with the Summicron/R2A combination. While the ergonomics of the MP are superior to the R2A (to my taste, I use an M6 TTL), the lenses are what really sets Leica apart. The Summicron in either the ASPH or 4th non-ASPH version have a little something that the CV lenses just don't have. It's very subtle but it's there.
SDK
Exposing since 1969.
Consider the New Zeiss Biogon 35mm/2 (ZM-mount, available now) and a Zeiss Ikon (M-mount camera due out in August) for about $2750 total. The Zeiss lenses are superb and the new Ikon is supposed to sport a big beautiful multicoated finder. Alternatively find a good used M6 or M6TTL or Hexar RF with the Zeiss 35mm or a used 35mm Summicron-ASPH. These are more economical, yet high quality choices than new Leica gear
Roger Hicks
Veteran
MP and Voigtlander glass (and I have both). Yes, the Leica glass is better -- but the MP is SO much nicer to use (I have MP, M4P, M2, R2, R3a, T) that I'd put up with previous-generation lens performance for a while. It's still a better lens than most people are photographers!
Cheers,
Roger )www.rogerandfrances.com)
Cheers,
Roger )www.rogerandfrances.com)
peter_n
Veteran
Whatever you buy, get it used. I too would lean toward the Leica lens/CV body combination, although I have not done that myself. Another attractive combo is all CV: the 35mm/f1.7 with an R2a. Will you be making large prints with the 35, entering competitions, etc? Do you really need what a Leica lens can give you? If not the CV 35/1.7 is a cracking lens that is very highly regarded in this forum. A lot less expensive too.
Just reading the responses you have gotten right now, I think they are all right.
So let come in from left field, how about an R2a and 35 Summilux? You can use your Elmar as your 50, and wow, a really fast 35, wish I had one.
It is fun spending other people's money.
So let come in from left field, how about an R2a and 35 Summilux? You can use your Elmar as your 50, and wow, a really fast 35, wish I had one.
It is fun spending other people's money.
T
the lobster
Guest
If it were me, I'd get the MP first.
And then get a hold of a 40mm M Rokkor which sell for much less than they should because they don't say Leitz. The lens is a new favorite of mine (has supplanted the DR Summicron my M5, for now) and you just might fall in love with it while saving for the 35 summicron. Plus you get your pick of single coated (made for the CL, serial numbers on front) and multi-coated (for the CLE, numbers on barrel)- just like a CV 40!
And then get a hold of a 40mm M Rokkor which sell for much less than they should because they don't say Leitz. The lens is a new favorite of mine (has supplanted the DR Summicron my M5, for now) and you just might fall in love with it while saving for the 35 summicron. Plus you get your pick of single coated (made for the CL, serial numbers on front) and multi-coated (for the CLE, numbers on barrel)- just like a CV 40!
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T
the lobster
Guest
I forgot to add that the Rokkor can probably be had for less than the Ultron, too.
eric mac
Established
More decisions
More decisions
Go for the Bessa and a 35 summicron. If you are a user , stay away from the apo or 8 element or whatever is hot at the moment. Just get something and get out and shoot. I've used this combination for a year or two and never had a problem. I have an Olive R2 and just picked up the R3a, but the jury is still out on which one I like better. I am using the R3a with the 35, so what ever is in the viewfinder ends up on the picture.
Eric
More decisions
Go for the Bessa and a 35 summicron. If you are a user , stay away from the apo or 8 element or whatever is hot at the moment. Just get something and get out and shoot. I've used this combination for a year or two and never had a problem. I have an Olive R2 and just picked up the R3a, but the jury is still out on which one I like better. I am using the R3a with the 35, so what ever is in the viewfinder ends up on the picture.
Eric
Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
After you read all the responses, come back to me as I've got the following for sale 
35 Cron Asph
R2a
R3a
35 Cron Asph
R2a
R3a
Ben Z
Veteran
Tuna said:
IMO it boils down to what's more important to you, the ergonomics of the Leica body, or the optics of the Leica lens. There's probably more palpable difference between the bodies, but alas nobody but you can decide your priorities for you. I can't even begin to get inside your head, mainly because you've rejected the M6 out of hand, and I had and sold an MP for an M6 and lots of cash and find the M6 much more user-friendly as a shooter, even if it doesn't look as retro-cool.
M
mad_boy
Guest
It depends on your judgement of Leica's future.
If you think they go broke, get the body.
Now you can still get an a la carte, build to your taste. When they are bankrupt there will be no more a la cartes! Lenses will be in plenty supply (used)
If you think they will make it get the lens.
They will at some point bring the digital M out, at which time some people will sell their MP's to raise the cash. At that point in time, get the body.
mad_boy
If you think they go broke, get the body.
Now you can still get an a la carte, build to your taste. When they are bankrupt there will be no more a la cartes! Lenses will be in plenty supply (used)
If you think they will make it get the lens.
They will at some point bring the digital M out, at which time some people will sell their MP's to raise the cash. At that point in time, get the body.
mad_boy
doubs43
Well-known
If I had that choice, it would be an easy one; buy the MP body and an adapter. I'd then use the Elmar until I'd saved the remainder of the funds needed for the Summacron.
Walker
Walker
Tuna
Fotoğrafçı
Thank you for all your excellent suggestions. I am leaning toward getting the MP and will be going later this week to a dealer to check one out.
The possibility still exists that I will continue to hold out for another month and wait for the reviews on the similarly sized and packaged Zeiss Ikon setup mentioned by SDK above...
Tuna
The possibility still exists that I will continue to hold out for another month and wait for the reviews on the similarly sized and packaged Zeiss Ikon setup mentioned by SDK above...
Tuna
T
the lobster
Guest
Tuna said:
Now it certainly isn't my job to talk anybody out of a camera purchase, so I hope it doesn't seem like that's what I am about to do, but... If you were leaning toward a M7, I could see checking out a new Ikon, but a from an MP to an Ikon is a big leap it seems to be. The selling point of the MP is "mechanical perfection" and the Ikon has a 100% electronic shutter- no batteries, no picture. (I think I'm right on this.) I'm sure the Ikon is beautiful (wait until black is available!!), I'm just pointing out a little bit of difference from where we started.
sgy1962
Well-known
Although I don't always follow this advice myself, I would always put my money into the lenses. The body is just a box; it is the lenses which determine picture quality. I echo the recommendation to consider the new ZI rangefinder. Not only is it much more affordable then the Leica rangefinder (about half the price), but some appealing concepts -- larger rangefinder base and huge viewfinder (which eyeglass wearers will love). My understanding is that this camera will hit the streets this fall. In the same regard, I would consider the new Zeiss Ikon lenses. The reports from users have been very favorable, as is their price. I know that currently there is a comprehenisve review of these lenses being prepared by Erwin Puts, who is generally considered very pro leica. I believe his report is due to be published on his web site next month.
Now if you really want an MP, used ones in mint condition periodically come up on Ebay at substantial savings. Because of the more mechanical nature of this camera, I personally would not be concerned in buying used w/o a warranty.
Now if you really want an MP, used ones in mint condition periodically come up on Ebay at substantial savings. Because of the more mechanical nature of this camera, I personally would not be concerned in buying used w/o a warranty.
Fred
Feline Great
Tuna,
Welcome.
From a personal perspective, I'd suggest that you try both the Leica and the Bessa. Whilst the Bessa is a very good machine, the overall feel and rangefinder accuracy are the biggest differences along with a much quieter shutter.
There have been some posts as to the reliability of some of the Bessas although I guess we tend to hear about the odd faulty ones and not the many good ones so don't let that influence your decision.
From a personal perspective I'd prefer to go for the Leica body as that will be my main point of contact the system so it has to feel right. The VC 35 1.7 is a cracking lens (far better than I am) It's also a lot cheaper than an R2a body and should work fine for you for a long while. If and when you do change for the Summicron, there is less money spent in all also.
Have fun deciding.
Welcome.
From a personal perspective, I'd suggest that you try both the Leica and the Bessa. Whilst the Bessa is a very good machine, the overall feel and rangefinder accuracy are the biggest differences along with a much quieter shutter.
There have been some posts as to the reliability of some of the Bessas although I guess we tend to hear about the odd faulty ones and not the many good ones so don't let that influence your decision.
From a personal perspective I'd prefer to go for the Leica body as that will be my main point of contact the system so it has to feel right. The VC 35 1.7 is a cracking lens (far better than I am) It's also a lot cheaper than an R2a body and should work fine for you for a long while. If and when you do change for the Summicron, there is less money spent in all also.
Have fun deciding.
Tuna
Fotoğrafçı
Quick update: I got the MP and 35/1.7 Ultron and am very satisfied. What swung the deal was the latest Leica promotion - a FREE Leicavit or motor drive with any purchase of a new MP or M7 from an authorized dealer if bought by mid-December. My pro shop sells the Leicavit for $1100... I suppose this is an innovative method for Leica to compete with the soon-to-be-released Zeiss competitor?
Thanks again for your help, folks.
Tuna
Thanks again for your help, folks.
Tuna
Well it certainly worked with you! Congratulations, and be sure to take a shot of the camera at breakfast and post it in the camera and coffee thread.
Ben Z
Veteran
I'm with the guy who said to buy the MP (I won't try to talk you out of it, but I had one, wasn't at all impressed with what it did or didn't have over an M6, and sold it...for two M6 classics and a Voitlander 28/1.9) and a screw-M adaptor for your Elmar. That way you don't end up with a lens or body you'll lose money on later, and you can put that money straight into your M-Summicron fund.