"Demand for film cameras is greater than the production capacity" - Leica

[gavinlg]

Same argument, every time. Same, same, same. The way it has been argued for over a year. No need to go over the same tired stuff we've all heard. Simultaneously, many of us haven't seen this resurgence where we live, instead, only the continued shrinking of the industry, in spite of all this "proof" to the contrary. Don't tell me there is a resurgence in the film industry, when locally, in the 5th largest city in the USA, we only see continued rapid contraction. And in this city with several big schools that have prominent still, motion picture, and fine art film programs, there is still no resurgence to speak of.
Phil Forrest

There's no real argument. Leica themselves said demand has risen beyond their production capability. No one is saying its going to be a mainstream thing. Just merely that demand is rising.

You're in Philly right? Indie Photo Lab will help you out for film processing and sales. I bet they'll even tell you demand has risen. I have sent film to them before for scanning - from the other side of the world. Now I don't have to, because several film specific labs have opened in both of the cities I live in - I count 9 new film labs that have opened in the last 5 years between Wellington NZ and Melbourne AU and I may be missing some.

 

[splitimageview]

There's no real argument. Leica themselves said demand has risen beyond their production capability. All the film manufacturers have reported a doubling in sales.

All useless, vague, meaningless market-speak to make their customers feel good, but no hard data...

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I prefer waiting for real, official news by the manufacturer themselve.

Isn't this what your whole argument is based upon though, mere conjecture?
Phil Forrest

 

[gavinlg]

All useless, vague, meaningless market-speak to make their customers feel good, but no hard data...

There are enough anecdotal indicators to strongly indicate that what they say is the truth.

Perhaps some on here are more interested in being curmudgeonly about film photography than being recipient to actual industry news about it...

 

[Phil_F_NM]

You're in Philly right? Indie Photo Lab will help you out for film processing and sales. I bet they'll even tell you demand has risen. I have sent film to them before for scanning - from the other side of the world. Now I don't have to, because several film specific labs have opened in both of the cities I live in - I count 9 new film labs that have opened in the last 5 years between Wellington NZ and Melbourne AU and I may be missing some.

I used to work with the owner of Indie, so I know it's there. I was the QC manager and maintenance guy at the lab he used to work at in center city. I had Indie do a few very simple print jobs for me which they messed up due to some contaminated chemistry, so I won't be using them anymore.
For other local processing, there is the lab that I mentioned I worked for, but again, fixer streaks, limited runs, I've seen less than stellar QC come out of that other one, and it's really easy to maintain an AGFA D-Lab, so I don't buy excuses.
Now that Philly Photographic is gone and Jack's Camera has dwindled down from 143 to maybe 2 stores (I used to work for them as well, it's where I got my AGFA training), I don't think there is anyplace in the city I would trust. The one out in Ardmore may still do processing, I'm not sure. What I'm saying is that the continued closing of all photo stores (and the closing of the lab at NFL Films!) does not point to a resurgence in film in this whole region. It is a niche market, with a niche resurgence, if any, and all the used cameras out there can feed this, easily.

Phil Forrest

 

[splitimageview]

There are enough anecdotal indicators to strongly indicate that what they say is the truth.

Perhaps some on here are more interested in being curmudgeonly about film photography than being recipient to actual industry news about it...

But where is the actual industry news, with specific numbers?

Not just vague descriptions but hard numbers; i.e., units sold of 35mm, 120, 4x5, etc., etc., year on year?

What about all the recently discontinued film stocks? Should that also be discussed or just ignored since it doesn’t fit the preferred narrative?

And what if Brand A has increased demand for a certain film stock simply because Brand B discontinued a competitive film stock?

What is the exact production capability of Leica to build film cameras? 10 a month? 50? And demand has increased to what, 12 a month? 60?

Without actual numbers it’s meaningless market-speak.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

My son finished university in May 2019 and I offered to buy him a better used car for his graduation, but he wanted a M6TTL instead.
He worked his way thru school at Guitar Center, but with a sideline photography business, most of his "for pay" photo-shoots ( fashion & portrait ) were digital of course, but a significant number of his customers asked for film.
This is all hipster stuff, but the non-photographer-customer (wanna-be model) was certainly aware of the significant "look" of film.

 

[Guth]

Now that Philly Photographic is gone and Jack's Camera has dwindled down from 143 to maybe 2 stores (I used to work for them as well, it's where I got my AGFA training), I don't think there is anyplace in the city I would trust.

We are all well aware of the massive decline that took place, nothing new there. It seems that you are no longer trusting of the lab options that do remain in your area, or much else for that matter. Regardless, I'm curious to know if you are actually in direct contact with any of those remaining labs regarding how their business is going or are you just passing along your assumptions?

 

[Guth]

My son finished university in May 2019 and I offered to buy him a better used car for his graduation, but he wanted a M6TTL instead.
He worked his way thru school at Guitar Center, but with a sideline photography business, most of his "for pay" photo-shoots ( fashion & portrait ) were digital of course, but a significant number of his customers asked for film.
This is all hipster stuff, but the non-photographer-customer (wanna-be model) was certainly aware of the significant "look" of film.

As long as his car hangs in there this seems like a wise choice as he ended up with a tool that he can use that also happens to be appreciating in value. By the way, not to offend, but "hipster" is an outdated term most often used by old folks that are out of touch. I know of what I speak with regards to this one, lol.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

We are all well aware of the massive decline that took place, nothing new there. It seems that you are no longer trusting of the lab options that do remain in your area, or much else for that matter. Regardless, I'm curious to know if you are actually in direct contact with any of those remaining labs regarding how their business is going or are you just passing along your assumptions?

I'm not in contact with them to the point that I hear about how much they are or are not processing. What I'm seeing is the continued contraction of the photofinishing industry by the closing of shops. And who knows what will survive in the coming months as this state and the whole country stubbornly refuse to take necessary steps to control the pandemic, and mitigate its effects on the overall economy.
Phil Forrest

 

[gavinlg]

What I'm seeing is the continued contraction of the photofinishing industry by the closing of shops.

Feel free to come visit one of my two home cities where plenty of new ones have opened. I count around 9 new labs in the last few years. I'll be happy to list them here if you don't believe me.
One city or area isn't necessarily indicative of the industry.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Which two home cities?

 

[gavinlg]

Which two home cities?

Wellington and Melbourne.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

One city or area isn't necessarily indicative of the industry.

Absolutely, but someone who isn't here can't tell me nor anyone else that things are peachy. Like has been said, still film is a niche product in a market which is largely a leisure activity or hobby.
Phil Forrest

 

[Out to Lunch]

Interesting. In Ho Chi Minh City, with its 10 million inhabitants, the decline of analogue photography is noticeable. There is a small group of, mostly younger and moneyed photographers embracing analogue photography but their numbers are small. What I have witnessed over the past 15 years, or so is a wipe-out of the analogue infrastructure: dozens of shops sold off their developing, scanning and printing equipment and were replaced by 7-11's and other businesses. Very few remain today. Analogue photography is maintaining a tiny foothold for 'the happy few' who are willing and able to afford the cost of shooting film. Cheers, OtL

 

[Filter Factor]

Feel free to come visit one of my two home cities where plenty of new ones have opened. I count around 9 new labs in the last few years. I'll be happy to list them here if you don't believe me.

Just a bump on the curve compared to what was there thirty years ago...

 

[gavinlg]

Absolutely, but someone who isn't here can't tell me nor anyone else that things are peachy. Like has been said, still film is a niche product in a market which is largely a leisure activity or hobby.
Phil Forrest

And right back at you - like I said, 9 new film labs. Things are very peachy for film shooters where I am.

And I’ve repeatedly said in this thread that the market is a boutique niche and no one is expecting or saying that film will ever be mainstream again. That was never the point. Nor do I want it to be.

 

[gavinlg]

Just a bump on the curve compared to what was there thirty years ago...

No one is expecting it to be what it was 30 years ago. And it doesn’t have to exist in the same way to exist successfully either.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

I am old and out of touch, nothing that I am ashamed of.
By the way, his car and mine flooded in the next hurricane, so he got another, better car anyway, and paid for a lot of it himself.

By the way, not to offend, but "hipster" is an outdated term most often used by old folks that are out of touch. I know of what I speak with regards to this one, lol.

 

[jawarden]

I don't think there is anyplace in the city I would trust. The one out in Ardmore may still do processing, I'm not sure.

Phil Forrest

I used to use them a lot but stopped as their film processing turn-around got longer and longer with reduced volume. I called today and "normal turn-around" for color film processing is currently 3+ weeks. I used to really like going there but I'm a film guy so...