"Demand for film cameras is greater than the production capacity" - Leica

[das]

My costs are actually less than $10. Self-rolled film (@ $4.00 / roll + $4 local lab C41 processing). I have a 15 year-old negative scanner which costs me nothing. The fixed costs of a computer and software are the same whether you use film (scanning) or digital (processing). At that point, you are comparing film/processing costs versus the digital camera body + lens costs.

 

[Guth]

Meanwhile we're in the age of Kodak 400 costing $5.99 per roll, plus processing and (almost always) scanning. For "good" scanning that's not done by a Frontier or Noritsu, shell out more.

Film IS an expensive hobby today.

By what modern standard is this expensive? We also live in the age where it’s not at all hard to find a hamburger selling for $10+ (w/o fries or a drink). Likewise a reasonable 20 oz. pint of craft brew might set you back what, maybe $5.75? , call hit $6 even. Relatively speaking the cost of film and processing does not strike me as being all that expensive in this day and age..

 

[KenR]

New cameras

New cameras

Most readers on this site would be quite happy if analog photography were really not a vanishing niche hobby with a few pros doing a small percentage of analog work. If it was truly a “resurgence” then where are the camera manufacturers? Yes Leica is selling their untouchably priced stuff, but where is the new Nikon F200? Where is the new Bessa R5 or the new Canon Eos10? If the market for a reasonably priced camera for users (not collectors) was there, why hasn’t anyone stepped up to the plate and committed the time and money to make one? Until I see that, I don’t believe that this is anything but a tiny, slowly fading market that will disappear in another decade as the old cameras deteriorate ever faster.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Expensive? Hardly.

Two rolls of Ektachrome will keep me busy all of Columbus Day weekend,
at a total cost of perhaps $50.00 including processing.
Some folks drink will that much in an evening.

And if it rains I'll shoot BW and process it at home, at a fraction of that cost.

Chris

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Most readers on this site would be quite happy if analog photography were really not a vanishing niche hobby with a few pros doing a small percentage of analog work. If it was truly a “resurgence” then where are the camera manufacturers? Yes Leica is selling their untouchably priced stuff, but where is the new Nikon F200? Where is the new Bessa R5 or the new Canon Eos10? If the market for a reasonably priced camera for users (not collectors) was there, why hasn’t anyone stepped up to the plate and committed the time and money to make one? Until I see that, I don’t believe that this is anything but a tiny, slowly fading market that will disappear in another decade as the old cameras deteriorate ever faster.

Exactly.
Phil Forrest

 

[zuiko85]

Expensive? Hardly.

Two rolls of Ektachrome will keep me busy all of Columbus Day weekend,
at a total cost of perhaps $50.00 including processing.
Some folks drink will that much in an evening.

And if it rains I'll shoot BW and process it at home, at a fraction of that cost.

Chris

Fifty dollars? Sounds like my wife’s bi-weekly beer budget. It’s what I get for marrying a canuck. I probably spend no more than $200 a year on film.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Fifty dollars?

This is the first time I will travel since the pandemic, so I thought I'd splurge.

I probably spend no more than $200 a year on film.

I spend less than half of that.

Chris

 

[css9450]

On the other hand, one can buy a Leica M6 today for $2,000 and, and if current trends continue, probably sell it for $2,500 in five years. If you bought a 1995 M6 in 2010, you would have paid a little north of $1,000 for one.

The Leica is a commodity, though, in the same category as rare coins, collectible artwork and classic cars. These items primarily change hands between collectors, not users. The $2000 M6, the $900 gold coin and the $100,000 Plymouth Super Bird aren't priced that way because of their usefulness as coins or cars or cameras.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

The Leica is a commodity, though, in the same category as rare coins, collectible artwork and classic cars. These items primarily change hands between collectors, not users. The $2000 M6, the $900 gold coin and the $100,000 Plymouth Super Bird aren't priced that way because of their usefulness as coins or cars or cameras.

The $2k M6 isn't a collectible (anymore than a digital M8 or M9 is) It's a photographic tool. The $20k black paint M2 is a collectible

 

[Guth]

The Leica is a commodity, though, in the same category as rare coins, collectible artwork and classic cars. These items primarily change hands between collectors, not users. The $2000 M6, the $900 gold coin and the $100,000 Plymouth Super Bird aren't priced that way because of their usefulness as coins or cars or cameras.

I'll respectfully disagree. Collectors can hang on to whatever suits their fancy including all of the one-off M6 variations. However, if anything the M6 cameras cameras have easily outpaced the meterless used M film cameras not only because of their form factor but also specifically because of their usability thanks to the built-in light meter.

I've noted in the past that when I bought my M6 back in 2000 almost no one had a clue what it was. These days I've encountered multiple young people who were out shooting film themselves, who when spotting my camera have taken the time to ask me about it. It seemed pretty clear to me that they were viewing it as a tool, not a collectible.

A $2K camera today is the equivalent of a camera costing a little over $1,300 back in 2000. While my purchase of a Leica camera and lenses constituted quite a stretch for myself at that point in time, there were certainly other younger folks around back then spending $1300 and more on cameras. While I do still find it rather surprising, it's not a stretch to think that younger folks might be spending $2K on a used Leica camera today, especially when alternatives are lacking specifically when it comes to rangefinder options with built-in light meters.

 

[Guth]

Most readers on this site would be quite happy if analog photography were really not a vanishing niche hobby with a few pros doing a small percentage of analog work. If it was truly a “resurgence” then where are the camera manufacturers? Yes Leica is selling their untouchably priced stuff, but where is the new Nikon F200? Where is the new Bessa R5 or the new Canon Eos10? If the market for a reasonably priced camera for users (not collectors) was there, why hasn’t anyone stepped up to the plate and committed the time and money to make one? Until I see that, I don’t believe that this is anything but a tiny, slowly fading market that will disappear in another decade as the old cameras deteriorate ever faster.

I do agree that the introduction of a new film camera, from any manufacturer, would represent a significant milestone in the photography world as a whole. But even if that isn't to happen within say the next decade, I imagine that there are still enough serviceable used film cameras in existence to carry us forward for many more decades yet to come.

 

[Rayt]

Prices of M6 bodies have risen to around $2000 because a new MP now costs $5300 sending used MP to $4000 depending on condition of course. Are people buying them to use, collect or speculate? Maybe all of the above.

 

[flagellum]

Cameras aren’t a great indicator of the health of the market, since there are so many around still. However, Kodak raising prices to afford new infrastructure and keep up with what they called unprecedented demand is more than telling.

Link for reference: https://kamerastore.com/breaking-news-kodak-to-raise-prices-on-all-film-in-2020-jan-1st/

 

[gavinlg]

Cameras aren’t a great indicator of the health of the market, since there are so many around still. However, Kodak needing to raise prices so that they can afford new infrastructure to keep up with insane demand is more than telling.

Just fake news and weather balloons my friend. Kodak, Ilford, leica and Nikon are all lying. It’s a conspiracy 😛

 

[das]

How would any new 35mm film camera be better than an F6? Unless you could make a hybrid film / digital camera, which may not even be possible, the practical limits of the technology (save maybe the speed of the autofocus) has probably been reached. I don't think that the failure to introduce a new high end film camera says anything about anything. Lomo is still pumping out cheap film cameras as well.

 

[Pál_K]

How would any new 35mm film camera be better than an F6?...

It depends on what a person considers "better" to be.

These days, I'm not attracted to any camera which has a dozen or more electronic subsystems for film transport, exposure, and motors and sensors which detect film movement, autofocus, rewinding, etc.

So what would be better?

Maybe my April Fool's day FM4 from two years ago on another forum:

(Photography News International, Tokyo) Borrowing from its once highly acclaimed FM series of 35mm film cameras, this week Nikon announced a next generation model: the FM4. Interestingly, the FM4 is more a direct descendant of the fully manual FM2n rather than the hybrid FM3a.

As we would expect, the FM4 is a completely mechanical, manual focus camera, with manual setting of aperture and shutter speed. There is no aperture-priority mode as in the FM3a. Yet, this is not a simplistic entry-level camera: there are some surprises.

Here are the key FM4 features:

* metering: matrix, center-weighted, and spot; ISO 12-6400

* lenses: AIS, AI, and pre-AI (can be metered at full aperture), plus manual focusing of AF-D lenses

* eyepiece diopter correction: -3 to +3; eyepiece shutter

* separate self-timer and mirror lock-up; depth-of-field preview

* viewfinder: diagonal split-image plus microprism collar; interchangeable screens; selected shutter speed and aperture visible; meter LEDs + o - for exposure; flash ready

* shutter release lock plus cocked shutter indicator; threaded release

* shutter speeds: B, 1 - 1/4000; sync at 1/250

* TTL flash hotshoe and ready LED indicator in viewfinder

Availability: 2018.04.01; the expected price is Th$750 (750 Theos).

 

[CMur12]

Pál_K, I would be all over your FM4 if it were offered, provided I could see the whole frame with glasses on, which you can't in an FM2. I would like it even better with an analog needle for metering.

- Murray

 

[f.hayek]

It depends on what a person considers "better" to be.

These days, I'm not attracted to any camera which has a dozen or more electronic subsystems for film transport, exposure, and motors and sensors which detect film movement, autofocus, rewinding, etc.

So what would be better?

Maybe my April Fool's day FM4 from two years ago on another forum:

(Photography News International, Tokyo) Borrowing from its once highly acclaimed FM series of 35mm film cameras, this week Nikon announced a next generation model: the FM4. Interestingly, the FM4 is more a direct descendant of the fully manual FM2n rather than the hybrid FM3a.

As we would expect, the FM4 is a completely mechanical, manual focus camera, with manual setting of aperture and shutter speed. There is no aperture-priority mode as in the FM3a. Yet, this is not a simplistic entry-level camera: there are some surprises.

Here are the key FM4 features:

* metering: matrix, center-weighted, and spot; ISO 12-6400

* lenses: AIS, AI, and pre-AI (can be metered at full aperture), plus manual focusing of AF-D lenses

* eyepiece diopter correction: -3 to +3; eyepiece shutter

* separate self-timer and mirror lock-up; depth-of-field preview

* viewfinder: diagonal split-image plus microprism collar; interchangeable screens; selected shutter speed and aperture visible; meter LEDs + o - for exposure; flash ready

* shutter release lock plus cocked shutter indicator; threaded release

* shutter speeds: B, 1 - 1/4000; sync at 1/250

* TTL flash hotshoe and ready LED indicator in viewfinder

Availability: 2018.04.01; the expected price is Th$750 (750 Theos).

Setting aside fully manual operation, you've described a Leica R8.
About $450 nowadays and a 1/8000 sec shutter, leaving money for several really nice R lenses.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

"Better" for me would be even simpler than that.

Chris

 

[Pál_K]

Setting aside fully manual operation, you've described a Leica R8.
...

The R8 is nice - I just want a separate on/off switch so that I can leave my mode dial alone.