"Demand for film cameras is greater than the production capacity" - Leica

There was a time when we thought of settling down and buying a house, etc, etc.


Now house prices are out of their league they spend the money on cameras, perhaps. And they waste it on clothes, cars etc.


Regards, David
 
On not judging people

On not judging people

gavinlg said:
To put it in perspective, the new Canon EOS R5 is the same price as a brand new leica MP. That’s not even the top end EOS camera with a more expensive pro version to be released later on. The new Sony A7s iii is only 700au less than the MP.

I know which one is the wiser investment.
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A big ++1 to that.


Also, let's not judge people for Leica purchasing decisions here. It's ok, especially of it gives them joy. And why be ageist and question why people can afford expensive gear? More than likely they work really hard for it and save.



There was a super interesting story today. "Buried deep in the ice is the GitHub code vault — humanity's safeguard against devastation" and in it this is noteworthy:

'...When it comes to making physical copies, your office A4 wouldn't cut it, so they used a refined version of century-old darkroom photography technology to create the archival film reels.Each film is made of polyester coated in very stable silver halide crystals that allow the information to be packed in tightly.
The film has a 500-year life span, but tests that simulate aging suggest it will last twice as long.'


When it is all said and done the total cost of doing B&W film today is actually cheaper than digital, you're more deliberate and if you set up a darkroom and get paper you probably have much less hassle than with a digital workflow. I bet it'll also make you happy.



The other day I saw this small shopfront behind which hides a darkroom for hire enterprise. Very funky, hipster no doubt but they are onto something good. And maybe some day I can find someone to give my wonderful and perfect spare Focomat V35 with color head? Meanwhile I am giving my darkroom stuff a good dusting....
 
Prices on used film M bodies certainly have gone up. And so too, many great film cameras out there not beginning with an "L." Having used an MP for 10 years, and now M2's, much rather have an older M then a newish film M. Why get a copy of the original when you can get the original? But that's just me, and -- ha, ha -- starting to view M2's as newish cameras as my interests drift further pre-war. Why get an M3 or M2 when you can have the original modern film rangefinder -- a Contax II or III? Ha, ha, see how that works.
 
Archiver said:
I wonder who are all these young people with several thousand dollars to spend on Leica film bodies? Even so, it's a good thing, as it keeps that arm of Leica in business, and maintains the supply of spare parts for longer.
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I think what people forget is that anyone can work and save up a few thousand... especially if you live with your parents for free.
 
Perhaps people are fed up with the deluge of digital images. They may want to leave behind a pile of material negatives that their grandchildren will find somewhere in the attic.


Erik.
 
Erik van Straten said:
Perhaps people are fed up with the deluge of digital images. They may want to leave behind a pile of material negatives that their grandchildren will find somewhere in the attic.


Erik.
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More than likely the grandchildren won’t care about the negatives or the digital files.
 
its a Good Thing. Leitz must have figured the dollars equation will work....or they would have Not made the statement. There IS room for advancement in film technology. 35 didn’t stop with the M6 and F6. Leitz, possibly has retained M4 tooling. This Superbly crafted and designed machine has been Re-introduced before. I think it would find a ready market if the price can be kept under 3K.
 
Talk. In the meantime, there is a critical shortage of Leica spare parts for a number of cameras, and Leica is not training and supporting qualified technicians outside Germany.
 
Perhaps they're all saving because most of the restaurants in the world offer limited service or are closed, so they're not eating out as much.
Phil Forrest
 
Archiver said:
I wonder who are all these young people with several thousand dollars to spend on Leica film bodies?
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Well... me. I was in my mid-20s when I got my M2.

Cost less than a lot of people in my outdoorsy community spend on MTBs, packrafts, tents, kayaks etc etc.

I worked hard, saved where I could and spent money on something I was interested in. So do lots of other ‘young people’.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Then again, if production capacity is very low, just a few people wanting a brand new super stealth Leica with Noctilux, so they can deftly take photos of people in dark bars, not wearing masks then publicly shame them on Tumblr. So maybe the market is there but I really don't see it here in the northeast USA.
Phil Forrest
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I don't think people use Tumblr any more. I agree that it's a niche demographic, but I teach (not photography) in an art school and many of my students come in already well-trained in darkroom techniques at age 18 and some with a few years of LF photography under their belt. The odd thing is, they still lust after my ratty M4 with whatever (usually non-Leica) lens on it.

Spavinaw said:
M5. Ugly? So what? I'm taking pictures WITH my camera, not OF my camera!
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Perhaps you're putting your finger on the pulse here—"analog" photography (I can't stand that retrofitted term) on social media is often all about sharing pictures of gear (like the Duke and Duchess of Urbino paintings by Piero della Francesca—"we own this land behind us") and less about sharing photography, perhaps because photography itself is completely ubiquitous after cellphones and few people learn how to critically engage with any image. If the "success" of a photo (a dubious concept for social media) depends on how well it captured a gotcha moment, well, there's no real place to share photography then, is there?
 
gavinlg said:
To put it in perspective, the new Canon EOS R5 is the same price as a brand new leica MP. That’s not even the top end EOS camera with a more expensive pro version to be released later on. The new Sony A7s iii is only 700au less than the MP.

I know which one is the wiser investment.
Click to expand...

Is this a trick question? :) Because with a Canon R5 or Sony A7S III, I can get a reliable hybrid camera that will pay for itself for work, with rapid turnaround, 4k 120p or 8k, rock solid autofocus, and the ability to adapt almost any legacy lens.

The MP will give me countless hours of fondling and shooting pleasure, and I'd be able to sell it for not too much less than I paid for it years later. By that time, the R6 will be worth a 1/5th the original price.

So if I had the choice, I'd be like a guy I saw in the city shooting the Chinese New Year parade this year. He had a chrome MP on his shoulder and a Sony A7S II in his hand, hahaha.
 
As someone who currently owns more Leicas that I probably need, even though I have no immediate intention to sell them, I'm hoping that the "bubble" that pops will have more of an impact on the premium point and shoot cameras.
 
jsrockit said:
I think what people forget is that anyone can work and save up a few thousand... especially if you live with your parents for free.
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This be true, aharrr. I'm just thinking of the alternatives that young people could spend a few thousand on. Well, if they want to spend it on Leica gear, more power to them.
 
Eastman Kodak speculation money maybe? Had you invested $1000 in Kodak stock before news broke about government loans, then cashed out at it's peak price of $60, you might've soon walked away with $30,000 less fees and taxes. My own experience is was less dramatic: Back in the days of the tech bubble, seeing a $1000 investment rise 10x in 18 months. But it still felt unreal, like play money! Today, services like Robinhood, stock market speculation has never been easier or more accessible - just install an app. Nope, not suggesting that anyone do that - I haven't got the stomach for day trading myself and figure it's basically a form of gambling.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Realistically, how many folks under 35 are out there looking to spend between $8000 and $12000 I a camera body and a single lens? Then again, if production capacity is very low, just a few people wanting a brand new super stealth Leica with Noctilux, so they can deftly take photos of people in dark bars, not wearing masks then publicly shame them on Tumblr. So maybe the market is there but I really don't see it here in the northeast USA.
Phil Forrest
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Chinese rich kids. There are a lot of them. Just follow leica m6 or m3 on instagram and most photos are by younger kids in China.

I've sold a few nice but not really expensive lenses lately and all have gone to Japan/China.
 
I was shocked when I read that from Leica but then again the prices of Leicas have risen sharply. The thrift stores used to be filled with them now they are scooped up quickly when they appear which is very infrequently.
 
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