jackbaty
Established
I bought an X-Pro1 early and really wanted to love it. I'm sure for many people it's a great camera. I sold mine and kept the X100 which I still enjoy using.
Something about the X-Pro1 never clicked with me. The focus was slower than I was used to but reasonable. The files were very very good and I don't remember too many exposure issues. The viewfinder seemed less bright compared to the X100 which may have been my imagination. In the end it just didn't feel right somehow and with the other minor gotchas I gave up.
I keep thinking of trying again and may do so if there's ever an X-Pro2.
I now also have the XE-1 and I like everything about it except the EVF. Not that it's a bad EVF, but I prefer to look through a window and not at a tiny T.V.
Something about the X-Pro1 never clicked with me. The focus was slower than I was used to but reasonable. The files were very very good and I don't remember too many exposure issues. The viewfinder seemed less bright compared to the X100 which may have been my imagination. In the end it just didn't feel right somehow and with the other minor gotchas I gave up.
I keep thinking of trying again and may do so if there's ever an X-Pro2.
I now also have the XE-1 and I like everything about it except the EVF. Not that it's a bad EVF, but I prefer to look through a window and not at a tiny T.V.
dmc
Bessa Driver
Excellent thread! Very informative and, so far, everyone has been polite. I have both the X-Pro 1 and the X 100. I have had non of the issues the OP has had. In the end I have gone back to shooting mostly film, but I still pick up the Fujis, from time to time, and continue to be pleased with the quality results. BTW, I also prefer the X-100, just a personal preference I think.
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judsonzhao
Well-known
The main reason why I sold my X-pro1 and X100s is they have perceptible shutter lag to me, which is annoying IMO.
I dunno why the X-pro1 also has focus lag comparing to x-e1 in OVF mode. Guess should be my problem not fine setting the camera.
The framing is bit disappointed. There's one point I can't get, for traditional finder, the coverage is not very accurate, it's fine--- however, the X-pro1 has a hybrid finder, and there's a specific setting called frame correction, and the framelines are changing when you focus. But what you framed are still quite different comparing to what the framelines suggested.
I dunno why the X-pro1 also has focus lag comparing to x-e1 in OVF mode. Guess should be my problem not fine setting the camera.
The framing is bit disappointed. There's one point I can't get, for traditional finder, the coverage is not very accurate, it's fine--- however, the X-pro1 has a hybrid finder, and there's a specific setting called frame correction, and the framelines are changing when you focus. But what you framed are still quite different comparing to what the framelines suggested.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
I too was a fairly early adopter with the 35mm and the 18mm lenses. I really wanted to like the XPro-1. I tried really hard to like the XPro-1. The more I shot with it, the better I understood it, but it just didn't "think" like I do when I approach image making. And the CDAF missed as many as one out of three shots regularly, and was especially bad on low-contrast subjects or subjects with high contrast in the frame that weren't your primary point of focus. And manual focusing the XPro-1 is just a pain, and can't be done at all with the OVF, and that it had an OVF was the reason I bought it in the first place. I think in the eight or nine months I had mine, I did three or four firmware updates. To give credit where credit is due, Fuji is working hard to get the bugs out of their cameras. Unfortunately, they're just not there yet. For me not having some kind of manual focusing system in the OVF is a deal buster.
Other posters are absolutely right; when you nail the shot, the image is amazing. I found the metering to be better than adequate, battery life was good, and the camera's handling over-all was pleasant, but even after 5k exposures or so, I just couldn't get it to do what I wanted it to do when I wanted it to do it, and I got tired of fighting with it.
The mostly-manual M bodies, while significantly more expensive, are a better fit for my style of working.
Other posters are absolutely right; when you nail the shot, the image is amazing. I found the metering to be better than adequate, battery life was good, and the camera's handling over-all was pleasant, but even after 5k exposures or so, I just couldn't get it to do what I wanted it to do when I wanted it to do it, and I got tired of fighting with it.
The mostly-manual M bodies, while significantly more expensive, are a better fit for my style of working.
rivercityrocker
Well-known
My experiences pretty much mirror hepcat's. I wanted to like the XPro-1 so much I actually bought it twice thinking that firmware updates could fix it. Nope.
The camera is nice to look at and to hold, and when you nail a shot it looks glorious. The problem is nailing it is a crapshoot.
I wish I had time to list all of the quirks and bugs and stupid design problems it has, but it's just too much. I think hepcat and DanielDuarte pretty much said it all.
All I know is that after I bought a real rangefinder things just clicked into place. I never feel like I'm fighting the Leica to get a shot the way I did with the Fuji.
The camera is nice to look at and to hold, and when you nail a shot it looks glorious. The problem is nailing it is a crapshoot.
I wish I had time to list all of the quirks and bugs and stupid design problems it has, but it's just too much. I think hepcat and DanielDuarte pretty much said it all.
All I know is that after I bought a real rangefinder things just clicked into place. I never feel like I'm fighting the Leica to get a shot the way I did with the Fuji.
btgc
Veteran
Same woman can be great wife for someone and waste of life for another. Why so many expect camera should satisfy all needs and tastes?
f16sunshine
Moderator
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
I think the end message for any digital user is simply this, learn your camera...inside out. I've just sold my X100 having had it for a couple of years yet never really gelling with it BUT, once I'd taken the time to learn how to get the best from it I realised just how good they could be and that any issues I had with the camera were more about me and the way I work than the camera.
The X-Pro1 fits the way I work very well, perhaps as a DSLR shooter for work the sheer versatility of it along with, as David Manning has said, the fact that its actually a very modern camera helps it to work for me.
I think that this type of issue will become the norm now, if it wasn't ever an issue before, as we have to find both the technology level and implementation that suits the way we work. Though its not really too dissimilar from one photographer preferring the old Nikon F layout over the slightly more complex Olympus OM4 and its toys. Its just a case of finding what fits and then using it.
The X-Pro1 fits the way I work very well, perhaps as a DSLR shooter for work the sheer versatility of it along with, as David Manning has said, the fact that its actually a very modern camera helps it to work for me.
I think that this type of issue will become the norm now, if it wasn't ever an issue before, as we have to find both the technology level and implementation that suits the way we work. Though its not really too dissimilar from one photographer preferring the old Nikon F layout over the slightly more complex Olympus OM4 and its toys. Its just a case of finding what fits and then using it.
Michael Markey
Veteran
My thoughts too ... been a useful thread.
Guess we have to wait a while for a more balanced assessment to emerge.
I imagine that many of the issues described can be overcome .
I`m afraid ,though ,that it would frustrate me .
RichyD
Established
Thanks for all the replies. I want to like the camera and use it because when the images work the quality from the lenses is superb. I'm trying to overcome it's quirks and find out what are quirks or problems. It has so many fiddly little operations and is easy to inadvertently press a button and change something. I can see that Fuji are trying to give as many options to suit all tastes which is great but of course adds to the complexity.
Thanks for that I knew it had to be something like that but couldn't find anything in the manual.
I have tested with all the exposure modes and fixed ISO settings but can't seem to get consistent results. I will persevere again and see if I can find settings that work consistently and expected for the conditions.
I have had a digital SLR before and it shot just like any other camera, it shouldn't be any different for any camera only the recording medium different.
For those that have commented on speed of focus, that hasn't been an issue for me. If you use manual focus cameras and wind on film, the time from shot to shot is about the same.
Thanks for that I knew it had to be something like that but couldn't find anything in the manual.
I have tested with all the exposure modes and fixed ISO settings but can't seem to get consistent results. I will persevere again and see if I can find settings that work consistently and expected for the conditions.
I have had a digital SLR before and it shot just like any other camera, it shouldn't be any different for any camera only the recording medium different.
For those that have commented on speed of focus, that hasn't been an issue for me. If you use manual focus cameras and wind on film, the time from shot to shot is about the same.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Ain't that the truth! There is a lot of excellent information on the Fuji X forum, and member "flysurfer" (who also posts here) explains many of the basic techniques for using the camera effectively. (He also published a guide to the XP1).
Since I've learned how to take the M9, which is generally the most fun to use, up to ISO3200 and above through PP, the XP1 stays at home a lot more. But I love the OOC jpegs and that 35/1.4 is one of the best lenses I've ever used.
The optical VF cannot be used for playback... same as a DSLR. Pg 19 in the manual should help you.
Yes, this... with the Fujis, this is especially true. However, I can understand not having the patience to deal with it too. I'm glad I was patient.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I've only briefly used digital Leicas but really like their interface compared to every other brand of digital camera ~ can't help but wish that Fuji and the others would take a lesson in user interface design... or do some overt copying rather than simply stealing "retro" cosmetics. It would never happen but I think the camera companies should use "slow" low IQ people with gloves on to test their cameras....
~
Watched enough camera introductions to know that waiting six months after the first units ship - and the first used ones start popping up - is the right way to buy them. I'm really tired of spending a lot of money to be a Beta tester... and it takes a few months for all the early adopters to loose their "glow" and really start spilling their guts ;-p
~
That said, I used Nikon auto-focus cameras for several years before I tucked in and really studied what all the settings really did... the difference between a properly set up camera - for me - and the default settings is dramatic. You simply have to read the instructions, experiment, and talk/read from more experienced users.
~
Watched enough camera introductions to know that waiting six months after the first units ship - and the first used ones start popping up - is the right way to buy them. I'm really tired of spending a lot of money to be a Beta tester... and it takes a few months for all the early adopters to loose their "glow" and really start spilling their guts ;-p
~
That said, I used Nikon auto-focus cameras for several years before I tucked in and really studied what all the settings really did... the difference between a properly set up camera - for me - and the default settings is dramatic. You simply have to read the instructions, experiment, and talk/read from more experienced users.
nongfuspring
Well-known
Sounds like you just need to spend some time with the manual. The X-Pro1 has some faults but metering accuracy isn't one of them. Regarding consistency, doing the same thing under the same conditions will give you the same result (even on a faulty camera). My guess is that you're changing something by accident.
Even though I like the Fuji cameras, I have to say "amen" to that.
burancap
Veteran
Sure the digital M's have an incredibly simple interface, but I can not find fault with the Fujis in my use so far. I personally find them feature rich, but simple enough and completely logical. The only complaint may be the occasional settings bump -an unfortunate "feature" of the original X100.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Frank Petronio said:
jsrockit said:
burancap said:
All very very true.
With most cameras I can do the usual bloke routine of discarding any thought of using the manual and finding my way round a camera pretty quickly. With Fuji and the in-depth nature of many of the Fuji menu systems I've learned that its much quicker to read the manual and set-up the camera to the way that works best for you or the manner in which you will mostly use it before even beginning to take any pictures more important than a passing cat, nearby flower pot or arm of the sofa in which you sit.
On a slightly different tack, though not wishing to deviate too far, I'm often amused by the 'Pro's/'Greats' don't talk gear' fallacy. In my experience and perhaps especially with digital gear Pro's often talk gear as they find out new set-ups, little tricks and menu options from colleagues that were previously unknown to them....okay, I don't know if thats true for the "Masters/Greats" as I've never met one.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Each camera has its limitations. The question then becomes "Can I live with those limitations without them compromising or hobbling my photography?"
Every photographer has to answer that question for themselves; there is no one size fits all answer, just as there is no one camera fits all camera.
Thank God we have such an endless array of cameras to choose from these days, including "old time" film cameras from the secondary marketplace.
In the end, the camera has to fit the way we choose to work.
willie_901
Veteran
The situation with the Fujifim X APS-C cameras is complex. Much of the sentiment in the negative threads is entirely Fuji's fault.
With the benefit of hindsight one can say Fuji should have delayed the release of the X100 and X-Pro 1 until the firmware was more mature. Fuji should have waited and implemented faster AF drives in all their XF lenses. Fuji should have hired native speaking writers (in all the languages Fuji supports) to develop manuals and on-line training that were as innovative as their technology and designs. Fuji should have offered in-camera, uncompressed TIFF output to avoid the early issues with XTrans raw rendering.
Right now - November 2013 -
It is possible to operate EVF/OVF X APS-C cameras with only a 10 msec shutter delay.
It is possible to quickly focus native XF lenses in low (~ E.V. 5) light when there is a subject available with reasonable contrast. The same is true for their-party lenses but more time is required.
The OVF frame estimates are more generous than many rangefinders. However rangefinder users understand the frames are only estimates. The same goes for parallax correction.
It is possible to use the OVF in a way that parallels the technique I used with an optical RF focusing system. I use the X-Pro 1 as I used a Zeiss Ikon M. I focus using AF in manual mode using the center of the frame and recompose. It is possible to get AF confirmation instantly with XF lenses or, with a different technique, in a few seconds. I use other techniques too... including turning the lens barrel manually.
When I encounter a situation ill-suited my preferred usage mode. I can switch to an entirely different mode of operation on seconds and get the shot.
The fact that people believe none of these things is easy or even possible is primarily Fuji's fault. And I agree with those who feel they should not have to spend time studying and practicing just to use the Fuji X system.
At the same time, I enjoy using the X-Pro 1 and XF lenses just as much as I enjoyed using the Zeiss Ikon M system. The images and prints I produce with X system are just as satisfying as the ones I made with the ZI-M. My mis-focus percentage is similar too. For me, climbing the learning curve was rewarding.
With the benefit of hindsight one can say Fuji should have delayed the release of the X100 and X-Pro 1 until the firmware was more mature. Fuji should have waited and implemented faster AF drives in all their XF lenses. Fuji should have hired native speaking writers (in all the languages Fuji supports) to develop manuals and on-line training that were as innovative as their technology and designs. Fuji should have offered in-camera, uncompressed TIFF output to avoid the early issues with XTrans raw rendering.
Right now - November 2013 -
It is possible to operate EVF/OVF X APS-C cameras with only a 10 msec shutter delay.
It is possible to quickly focus native XF lenses in low (~ E.V. 5) light when there is a subject available with reasonable contrast. The same is true for their-party lenses but more time is required.
The OVF frame estimates are more generous than many rangefinders. However rangefinder users understand the frames are only estimates. The same goes for parallax correction.
It is possible to use the OVF in a way that parallels the technique I used with an optical RF focusing system. I use the X-Pro 1 as I used a Zeiss Ikon M. I focus using AF in manual mode using the center of the frame and recompose. It is possible to get AF confirmation instantly with XF lenses or, with a different technique, in a few seconds. I use other techniques too... including turning the lens barrel manually.
When I encounter a situation ill-suited my preferred usage mode. I can switch to an entirely different mode of operation on seconds and get the shot.
The fact that people believe none of these things is easy or even possible is primarily Fuji's fault. And I agree with those who feel they should not have to spend time studying and practicing just to use the Fuji X system.
At the same time, I enjoy using the X-Pro 1 and XF lenses just as much as I enjoyed using the Zeiss Ikon M system. The images and prints I produce with X system are just as satisfying as the ones I made with the ZI-M. My mis-focus percentage is similar too. For me, climbing the learning curve was rewarding.