Ben Z
Veteran
I just noticed that. I don't know how many insurance companies there are in the Netherlands or how they are interrelated. But based on what I know of insurance companies in N. America, the idea that exactly one 4-figure claim paid by one insurer would result in a country-wide exclusion of any M8 from insurability is unbelievable. Too bad JaapV is on vacation, because I know he has his insured and would know the answer to that. As it stands however, that statement does weaken my inclination to accept the rest of the story at face value.
That said, I recall reading where someone had the bottom ridge of their M8 crack off at the lock tab and Leica (in Solms) initially told them it wasn't covered under warranty because--allegedly--the M8 should not be used vertically on a tripod
Eventually I believe Stefan Daniel intervened and repaired it under warranty, and issued a statement that others would have it done under warranty also. Here again, there were at least a few of the same failures, not just one. But it does point out that as with most companies (car companies too), the repair department is sometimes a bit over-eager to deny warranty claims. But frequently, if the consumer can find the right ear to bend (or has a dealer who will go to bat for him in that regard), someone higher-up and/or in customer service, will see to it that an exception is made. I can certainly commiserate with the O.P.'s frustration. I can't really blame him for taking his plight to the court of public opinion, which in the case of Leica, are the forums. I might do the same if I were in his shoes. Nonetheless, the fact remains that if the M8 were so poorly sealed that a few raindrops spelled its inevitable demise, we would surely have been hearing of more cases. People have never been shy about trumpeting their M8 problems in the forums. So, I think there are two separate issues.
One is, is it possible the O.P.'s M8 was defectively assembled such that it allowed much easier and/or greater ingress of moisture than others. Certainly that is a possibility, and if so, it should have been fixed under warranty. Personally I think unless Leica found seaweed inside the camera, they should have just bit their tongue and fixed it free or given him a replacement, with a smile, and wrote it off to goodwill. Or at least offered some kind of compromise solution like only charging him for parts or labor, not both. Anything to show goodwill. You know the old business addage "If a customer likes you he'll tell a friend, but if he doesn't like you he'll tell ten friends."
The second and separate issue is, is the M8 as a design, so poorly sealed that minor moisture will kill it. I think the numbers answer that with a "no".
reinierv
Member
And this is perfectly true. I already heard from 5-7 people that they no longer consider the M8 if this is the case. Now if they would have been buyers in the end I ofcourse can't tell (from 2 I certainly can), but at least they will tell others. So Leica's loss will be (in numbers
) larger than mine......I got me a pretty decent offer from the shop I bought the M8 from, which was significantly less then the repair cost quoted by Leica and was covered by what the insurance payed out. So in the end, considering I also would have an extra loss if I had to sell the lenses and extra's I own for the M8 and having had a look and serveral alternatives and disapointed that Nikon didn't live up to the rumours, I reluctantly will be an M8 owner again.
:bang: If RF is your thing and you wish the speed of digital, then there is no real alternative. And if I decide to sellit again in the comming months, looking at the price of 2nd hand M8's I will only make a very small loss on the body. The price I was offered was that good
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tmfabian
I met a man once...
holy god...you took a 500C out in the rain, those things are about as weather sealed as a screen door
compared to that the m8 is a freaking submarine in terms of weather sealing.And it's something i've always been very attached to when people complain that a "pro" or expensive camera should be perfectly weather sealed...hassy's are about as "pro" as they come and i don't think any of them were particularly well sealed vs the elements, like you and Fred have already stated, it just takes some smarts to safely use these kinds of cameras in bad conditions.
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BillP
Rangefinder General
My point exactly.
...I reluctantly will be an M8 owner again.
So.
Your unfortunate experience has resulted in you... buying another M8.
That says it all.
Case closed.
Regards,
Bill
reinierv
Member
well bill
as said many times before...give me a true alternative and I'll take it...
I still may sell the whole bunch in a few months as it will mean just little loss. The price they give me was good enough for that. And for now I need to continue work and the M8 image quality is more then excellent, no discussion there.
I considered Canon G9, Ricoh GX200 (dumped the 100 once), Sigma DP...none gives the quick MF control as the M8, let alone image quality
I considered 5D or alike with M converter...too big
But If Nikon would come up with the rumoured RF "as specified" I will sell of the M8 at the very moment this RF hits the market. I will probably pre-order.
Untill then I will have to use the M8 with care, so be it
as said many times before...give me a true alternative and I'll take it...
I still may sell the whole bunch in a few months as it will mean just little loss. The price they give me was good enough for that. And for now I need to continue work and the M8 image quality is more then excellent, no discussion there.
I considered Canon G9, Ricoh GX200 (dumped the 100 once), Sigma DP...none gives the quick MF control as the M8, let alone image quality
I considered 5D or alike with M converter...too big
But If Nikon would come up with the rumoured RF "as specified" I will sell of the M8 at the very moment this RF hits the market. I will probably pre-order.
Untill then I will have to use the M8 with care, so be it
BillP
Rangefinder General
I do like to see a happy ending. Use your new M8 in good health, Reinier.
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill
tmfabian
I met a man once...
ok...i'm convinced something other than a little moisture or even rain affected your camera to cause all that damage after reading up on another forum about the build quality of the m8, i'm not saying you're trying to mislead us here, just that your m8 could have likely had a defect in some way that allowed the damage to happen. Here's the quote.
direct from the mouth of the guy that took his m8 apart.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html
ok i'm going to sleep, i've been awake for 39 hours.
direct from the mouth of the guy that took his m8 apart.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html
ok i'm going to sleep, i've been awake for 39 hours.
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MikeL
Go Fish
I've gone wading into a stream multiple times and forgot about my cell phone in my pocket. Luckily, the stream has low conductivity (i.e. low ion concentration). After letting the phone dry out in the sun it has been fine. What's in the water and how long things stay wet can determine if things get fried or badly corroded.
reinierv
Member
ok...i'm convinced something other than a little moisture or even rain affected your camera to cause all that damage after reading up on another forum about the build quality of the m8, i'm not saying you're trying to mislead us here, just that your m8 could have likely had a defect in some way that allowed the damage to happen. QUOTE]
You may have noticed that I also left the option that my camera had some sort of defect open...I believe it is a valid assumption and made the gamble for a new M8 easier
blast...I wanted to do that, someone was ahead of me....
Well going to do it anyway. looks like fun to me
Roger Hicks
Veteran
holy god...you took a 500C out in the rain, those things are about as weather sealed as a screen door
Yeah...
What made it really interesting was that it was at Tso.Pema (Rewalsar) in the Himalayas, and I was there with a weather control lama. It rained between the Cham dances (and I took pictures) but it didn't rain during the dances (when I also took pictures). You can probably hypnotize me but you can't easily hypnotize a 500C.
This was only heavy drizzle, not monsoon, but I sold the camera a year or so afterwards when I switched to 6x7cm (NEVER let an art director crop a 6x6...) and the chum to whom I sold it was still using it professionally 15 years later (I've not seen him for a decade or more).
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
Corrosion in low volage electronic equipment that have been exposed to water in their internals is accelerated by the electrolysis process, caused by the battery voltage. The first thing one should always do when suspecting that an electronic device has been wettened is to remove all power. For cameras, this implies removing the battery (and the date-backup cell, if it has one.)
~Joe
~Joe